Dinghies and surf landings

[jmh2002]

Lots of good advice about how to achieve this.

The only thing that I will add is that sometimes you just need to be strong enough to say "No, we can't land there" (at the moment / today / etc).

And making that call is often the most difficult part when people are itching to get ashore for whatever reason.

Maybe there is another option, a different landing spot where after you need to walk or take transport from.

Or maybe it's just not going to happen today and a beer or a meal on the boat is a better option.

The same goes for some dinghy docks too. It's quite common in some locations (even normal caribbean or med cruising spots) for there to be quite a swell at the dock. If you are lucky it just means using anchor to keep the dinghy off the dock. If you are unlucky then it's the same as surf and you need to consider your options safety wise.

Discretion can often be the better part of valor in these situations.

[Michael Cobbe]

In Nazare, Portugal they have huge breaking waves used by surferrs for competitions We have stopped in our yacht there but only when it was calm. The problem is that you cannot see from behind if the waves are breaking but if there are big waves where you sailing keep sailng.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

This is how it's done:

https://youtu.be/MLaK-KPQYlc

Gee thanks, now I want one...

[Suijin]

The bigger the dinghy the easier it is to get through a surf but the harder it is to deal with when things go pear shaped.

Stability in a surf break would be pretty far down my requirements list unless it was a persistent and common issue. Otherwise I'd be focused on carrying capacity, handling for stowing, etc.

I think it's a truism that you should carry the biggest dinghy you can manage. I've never ever heard anyone complain their dinghy was too big whereas those with small dinghys complain so much you want to stuff a rag in their mouth.

[billknny]

The Australian lifeguards have a series of training videos on how to handle a RIB in heavy surf. Well worth watching how the pros do it, although somehow when you cross the equator, the term "RIB" gets tangled around to "IRB"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXC83hKsBfU

[tarian]

Originally Posted by Michael Cobbe

In Nazare, Portugal they have huge breaking waves used by surferrs for competitions We have stopped in our yacht there but only when it was calm. The problem is that you cannot see from behind if the waves are breaking but if there are big waves where you sailing keep sailng.

Yup I have surfed there and got well banged up coming in , Hugh waves, all big wave surfers are taking out on powerful jetskis that have the punch and heavy front to smash through , so a powerful engine and weighted down at the front and be prepared to get wet, but I don't expect big surf in the Caribbean , Portugal , and the Canaries and western France and north Spain are your issues , but these are normally marina stops for a Atlantic crossing .

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We rarely attempt surf landings because they are risky, dangerous actually, and usually not worth it, however we have done it often enough and there are a few things we do to make it safer.

Landing:
First, Pick your spot. Often there is a corner where the surf is minimal.

Then, after watching and timing the breaks, try to follow a moderate size wave in, matching your speed to the wave. Stay on the back of the wave. This requires a boat with sufficient speed to plane or close to it.

When you get in to where you can jump out, immediately disembark and turn the boat around so that the waves hit the bow, not the transom. Then back the boat in until the receding waves leave it aground. Then you can work it up the beach.

Sometimes we put the wheels down after we are out of the dingy. Do not attempt to come in with the wheels down. Your speed will be restricted, and you will stop too far out in the surf, and possibly break the wheels.

Launching:
Push the dingy out bow first with two people holding it as the waves come in. (This is the dangerous part, the wave can throw the dingy against you knocking you down. Be careful.)

Be sure and put up the wheels before getting underway.

After timing the waves and finding a lull, one person jumps in and rows out or starts the engine), then the second person springs in and with the motor running motors against the breakers (Jumping in and getting underway is also dangerous, be careful but fast.) The strongest person should stay in the water and hold the dingy.

It is important to keep the dingy bow-on to the waves and hang on. When a wave hits you must be hanging on strongly or you can get thrown right out of the dingy, or, at best, tossed in the stern.

Once underway you proceed. If there are some small waves you go right out. Keep one person in the bow, holding tight.

If there is a wave too big you must turn very quickly and run in before it. Make this decision early because you do not want to be sideways to that wave when it hits you.

I have seen experienced surf drivers go back and forth inside the breaking waves looking for a spot to speed out. They drive parallel to the beach inside the breakers and turn briefly into each wave as it approaches. When an opportunity comes they go for it.

Many people have been injured, some badly, by being tossed under a dingy in the surf. We really don't recommend surf landings. We have not ever ourselves been tossed into the water trying to land or depart, and never had the dingy flipped or swamped, but we've been splashed plenty and generally we try to avoid surf landings. Some times we anchor the dingy outside the surf and swim in.

(I once was flipped in the dingy by surf not landing but when I ventured to close to a nice break and got caught from behind, and was too late to turn into it, another story)

Our dingy: A 11.8' Zodiac with inflatable floor and keel, and a 15hp two-stroke Mercury. This boat is fast and light, easy to drag up the beach or back out, and is less likely to injure you if it is thrown onto you in the surf.

Exactly, waves tend to come in sets (usually three to a set) - wait for the lull before heading in (or out) and never attempt to turn the dingy while actually riding a wave - it'll turn sideways in a heart beat and then you'll be in for it.

[SY Kelpie]

Thanks again for the advice.
For those who say "some days you just can't land safely at that spot" yes I do completely understand this; what I was really after was the steps I can take to extend the range of conditions in which I can safely land.
This is partly about technique, and partly about equipment. We have yet to choose our dinghy + engine and whilst there are a million compromises to be made, if it's possible to get better/safer performance in surf conditions then that is obviously something I would rather have than not have.

I'm not talking about storming in on the back of a tsunami, but if conditions deteriorate after landing it would be nice to be able to get off again!

[tarian]

Originally Posted by SY Kelpie

Thanks again for the advice.
For those who say "some days you just can't land safely at that spot" yes I do completely understand this; what I was really after was the steps I can take to extend the range of conditions in which I can safely land.
This is partly about technique, and partly about equipment. We have yet to choose our dinghy + engine and whilst there are a million compromises to be made, if it's possible to get better/safer performance in surf conditions then that is obviously something I would rather have than not have.

I'm not talking about storming in on the back of a tsunami, but if conditions deteriorate after landing it would be nice to be able to get off again!

I understand your dillema ,I will be setting of West in 2 years once the lady has finished for work , and we too were finding it hard to find a dinghy for all occasions for the world, I have been in all sorts , got wet, rowed them and sank a few , so we took the pluge and got a RIB with plastic bottom and 15 hp Honda ,
PROS
1, we need to be able to get the 2 hulking dogs to shore for their Pee
2. there is myself the lady and daughter with load it just planes
3. it is a heavy and robust boat I have chaps on it to protect it form the sun and the claws
4.I put wheels on it so I can handle it up a beach otherwise to heavy
5. I need a boat to take scuba equipment and to explore further afield , very important if you have a ecologist for a wife
6. Can get us into most beaches and surf we will encounter
7. can carry more back the the mother ship
8. can anchor further out and get back in tough weather

CONS
1. it is very heavy , consider aluminium hull
2. I do not have davits
3. IT is lashed forward uinflated while cruising at the front , (some say this is the best)
4. it is an expensive you cannot afford to lose or get stolen and may attract a thief or 2
5. more fuel to buy

I suppose Im saying their is no real answer to the quandary of a dinghy for everything were your heading I would not worry about surf but other issues
that I have listed above , I appreciate this is your decision but it is a vital one before setting of as this is your life line to shore supplies , life
good luck in your search

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Compass790

... You just pick a bigger swell & stay on the back of the wave ( seaward side ) all the way into the beach. Requires a bit of throttle control...

Bingo to Compass790 and others! I have a 10hp on a 10ft air-floor and have no issue keeping up with waves.

Launching is harder than landing. To launch, I put the bow into the surf, with motor down in shallow operation, I start it as soon as it's in water for cooling. walk out into water deep enough that the prop won't ground in a trough. Then as soon as the boat comes down off a wave, jump in and go before the next wave hits. Gets harder with more gear/people on-board or a heavy dink.

Practically, 2ft breakers are too big for a 10ft dink to launch/land safely, though it's possible, that's pretty much the limit.

[singlespeed]

I have done many surf landings. Dinghy speed is very important, but a 3.5 M dinghy with a 15 hp four stroke is almost impossible for a single adult male to manhandle up the beach a safe distance. Any break over four feet will mean EVERYONE in the dinghy needs to get out when the motor hits the sand. No one sits in the dinghy trying to stay dry; everyone helps pulling the dinghy to shore.

Watch from outside the shoreline, don't just power in. Some corners of a beach offer more protection than the centers of the beach. Rip currents offer an excellent route to shore as they frequently break in a different distance from shore than the rest of the beach and generally have a smaller break. Easy to see by the cloudy water extending out from shore or from the surfers using the rip to make paddling out easier. Start in the rip and when the rest of the break is past, slide over to the whitewater area if the rip still hasn't broken or just go all the way to shore in the rip. The only caveat for riding the rip, in or out, is be certain that everyone on the boat understands that if they end up in the water, they must swim parallel to the beach until out if the rip, before swimming into shore.

[SY Kelpie]

Originally Posted by tarian

I understand your dillema ,I will be setting of West in 2 years once the lady has finished for work , and we too were finding it hard to find a dinghy for all occasions for the world, I have been in all sorts , got wet, rowed them and sank a few , so we took the pluge and got a RIB with plastic bottom and 15 hp Honda ,
PROS
1, we need to be able to get the 2 hulking dogs to shore for their Pee
2. there is myself the lady and daughter with load it just planes
3. it is a heavy and robust boat I have chaps on it to protect it form the sun and the claws
4.I put wheels on it so I can handle it up a beach otherwise to heavy
5. I need a boat to take scuba equipment and to explore further afield , very important if you have a ecologist for a wife
6. Can get us into most beaches and surf we will encounter
7. can carry more back the the mother ship
8. can anchor further out and get back in tough weather

CONS
1. it is very heavy , consider aluminium hull
2. I do not have davits
3. IT is lashed forward uinflated while cruising at the front , (some say this is the best)
4. it is an expensive you cannot afford to lose or get stolen and may attract a thief or 2
5. more fuel to buy

I suppose Im saying their is no real answer to the quandary of a dinghy for everything were your heading I would not worry about surf but other issues
that I have listed above , I appreciate this is your decision but it is a vital one before setting of as this is your life line to shore supplies , life
good luck in your search

Thanks, sounds like you're in a similar position to us.
I've been round and round with different ideas for the dinghy. We've always used a roundtail Avon in the past, so I know what they're capable of and we will certainly keep one deflated in a locker for occasional use.
We came across a very battered old Avon 310 RIB going cheap last year and currently use this as our shore-to-mooring tender. It's too big and heavy to get on deck, but we have towed it for short trips, and we love the stability, size, and sturdiness of it. We only have a 3.5hp ob now, and this is pretty slow on the 310 even with just me aboard. Would be interesting to stick something bigger on the back. I wouldn't worry about it being stolen because it is very tatty looking.
We are about to fit a set of davits, but I wouldn't want to cross Biscay or the Atlantic with the dink hanging off them. Putting the 310, or any other RIB, on deck would require some sort of modification to our rig, because the babystay gets in the way. Nevertheless I have seriously considered something like a Caribe UL9, and moving the babystay forward to free up deck space.

As well as stowage, the cost of a good RIB and its attraction to thieves is a serious downside. Once we are away cruising our budget will be fairly modest and losing the dinghy and outboard could be two or three months cruising budget.

Currently I am very tempted by the thought of building a nesting tender, there are lots of different designs out there and everything is a compromise but I think it would be fun to build, I would love to have something I can sail around the anchorages and use to teach our son in, and it would row far better than any RIB. It solves the deck stowage issue, and likely the theft one as well. I bet it's not exactly an ideal solution for powering through surf though

[tarian]

Originally Posted by SY Kelpie

Thanks, sounds like you're in a similar position to us.
I've been round and round with different ideas for the dinghy. We've always used a roundtail Avon in the past, so I know what they're capable of and we will certainly keep one deflated in a locker for occasional use.
We came across a very battered old Avon 310 RIB going cheap last year and currently use this as our shore-to-mooring tender. It's too big and heavy to get on deck, but we have towed it for short trips, and we love the stability, size, and sturdiness of it. We only have a 3.5hp ob now, and this is pretty slow on the 310 even with just me aboard. Would be interesting to stick something bigger on the back. I wouldn't worry about it being stolen because it is very tatty looking.
We are about to fit a set of davits, but I wouldn't want to cross Biscay or the Atlantic with the dink hanging off them. Putting the 310, or any other RIB, on deck would require some sort of modification to our rig, because the babystay gets in the way. Nevertheless I have seriously considered something like a Caribe UL9, and moving the babystay forward to free up deck space.

As well as stowage, the cost of a good RIB and its attraction to thieves is a serious downside. Once we are away cruising our budget will be fairly modest and losing the dinghy and outboard could be two or three months cruising budget.

Currently I am very tempted by the thought of building a nesting tender, there are lots of different designs out there and everything is a compromise but I think it would be fun to build, I would love to have something I can sail around the anchorages and use to teach our son in, and it would row far better than any RIB. It solves the deck stowage issue, and likely the theft one as well. I bet it's not exactly an ideal solution for powering through surf though

Have a look at
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkE...CE-GPsMCdSjmxQ
these guys use a fold away hard dink and a sail and always sail her into beachs and harbour , lovely couple and sometimes I whish I could just sail a dink ,but the dogs are to fat

[singlespeed]

If in doubt about your skills going in or out of the surf, wait for a smaller surf day. Alternatively, in warmer waters, if alone, throw out your dinghy anchor outside the surf line and swim into shore to assess the situation and make a go/no go decision. If there are others in the dinghy, have them motor just outside the surf line while you swim in.

Two very important things to remember when in the surf;

1. When out of the dinghy, but in the surf line, never let the dinghy get between you and the breaking wave. A dinghy being pushed, by even six inches of white water, can easily knock you over or break your ankles.

2. Never attempt to land or go out through a shorebreak that is more than three feet (2 feet if inexperienced). A shorebreak is a wave that first breaks on shore. Inbound, it is very difficult to "see" the wave sets and unless your timing is impeccable, you may crash into the sand with everyone and everything being thrown forward. Outbound, it is extremely difficult to hold the dinghy just past the breakers, start the engine and get into the dinghy before the next breaker washes you back to shore. In some situations, you may find it easier to swim the dinghy past the shore break and then climb in and start it.

[SY Kelpie]

Originally Posted by tarian

Have a look at
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkE...CE-GPsMCdSjmxQ
these guys use a fold away hard dink and a sail and always sail her into beachs and harbour , lovely couple and sometimes I whish I could just sail a dink ,but the dogs are to fat

Great minds think alike... it was Florence who first gave us the idea of the nesting dinghy. We've followed their videos for a while now, very inspiring. The dinghy I have in mind is the bigger version of theirs, probably the 11ft.