Dockside Manners?

[ssullivan]

Sunspot Baby once whispered in the wind:

There are a lot of us old farts on the water who, in earlier lives, had responsible positions and in which our considerable experience and opinions were (at least to our face) highly regarded. We want to feel valuable, and having made even a couple of relatively successful attempts at cruising, feel the need to share our vast experience. Heck some of us feel qualified to offer advice if we even read a book about cruising. Hey forget reading it, if we even own a book about cruising.

I am currently taking tests to get my USCG Masters because I have met so many know-it-alls who have their ticket and cannot handle their boats, navigate, or observe the rules of the road as well as some of us less “highly qualified.” I listen to advice all the time. Sometimes, even those with less experience tell me something worth knowing. I hate having the “qualifications” of apparent incompetents shoved in my face.

I have been advised on how to anchor by a “Master” whose boat was merrily dragging anchor in a moderate current through Nassau Harbour, and how to tie up by someone unable to tie a clove hitch.

If I pass you one the dock, offer me a beer, not a sanding block.

Sunspot Baby

I have a couple of comments:

First, yes... life is GREAT if people coming up to my boat to give advice is the worst problem. No complaints there. Life on a boat is about as close to heaven as you get on earth. Agreed!

Next, I see you have suffered from the know-it-alls telling you how to dock, etc... In your case, they had Master's licenses. In my case, the majority are boats that haven't left the dock since I've been at this marina (since August). You know... 9-5 career types who come out for some drinks. At least you do understand the problem. The only difference is that yours had Master's licenses, while mine have well.... a Mercedes, a big house, and little experience on the water.

Re: The need to feel important.... that was my first thought regarding this subject. It was that these old guys had nothing better to do in life than try and act like big shots (while trying to dish out as much advice as possible to try and appear intelligent, even if they aren't). Many of us had "important" jobs where we had a large group of people looking to us as the leader. I founded and ran a decent size company in NYC until 9/11 wrecked it. It doesn't mean I've developed an emotional problem that causes me to spout at the mouth about every tidbit of marine knowledge I picked up in life. The times of running an organization are over (thank GOD) and now it's time for a quiet, less stressful life without the competition. Is this need to feel important still tied to a sense of competition as well? I'd be curious, since it seems that way.

One of the worst offenders around here got very upset when I first met him. He has a gulfstar 44 trawler. We were talking gulfstars and he mentioned his 44 trawler. I mentioned our 45 sail. He got PISSED, said "oh, I see... one upsmanship" and went away, only to return with "advice" constantly. He is one of the older guys who used to have a decent job. I was wondering if he might have been feeling useless/competitive, etc.... from what you write, it sounds like this is what happened.

It's a shame people can't enjoy boating for what it is... an ESCAPE from all that crap. Leave the mental problems on land and come correct. Nobody is any more "important" than anyone else out on the water. The sea will be kind or kill you no matter who you are on land.

Interesting post.... thanks for letting me know where some of these folks are coming from. I had some theories, but you have helped out a lot.

[witchcraft]

Gord,
I loved that last. Thanks for my morning chuckle.
I am happy to listen to advice offerings. I am happy to discard those offerings that do not seem *right* for my boat. I am happy to consider those that seem to make sense.
We all learn as we go, and I have benefitted from others suggestions on occasion.
Everyone of us has opinions about the best way to do things, some of those opinions may or may not be best suited to a particular boat, or circumstance.
Cheers
Witchcraft

[Wahoo Sails]

Sean,
I once worked with a fellow that taught me a great lesson. We both did auto tune-ups at a shop where the customers could walk over and tell you what they thought you were doing wrong. We were both professionals, and invariably the customer had heard some old wives tale etc. ... I guess you could see the scenario, we had to be polite, but at the same time tell the fellow to bugger off and let us do our job. It was a difficult situation to handle gracefully ... then my friend showed me his technique ... he would say to them "You know ... you're absolutely right!" they would sit down filled with confidence in their own wisdom ... meanwhile my friend continued on just as he had been doing .... worked like a charm!
I do much the same hear, I gladly listen to all advice ... but unless someone can show me the wisdom of their advice, it's "You know ... you're absolutely right!"

Bob & Lynn
L S/V Sew Good

Wahoo Sails, You know, you are absolutely right
That is how we used to handle managers at work. worked like a charm. We looked good because we appeared to follow orders, and they looked good because the job got done.
Sean, I think you are onto something with the competition thing. It is part of the life. After all, who can sail along within sight of another boat and not start trimming sails, and adjusting course to, at least appear to be going faster than the other boat?

[s/v 'Faith']

Here here!

KUI Nui,

Fortunately, most of those people never leave the slip

Yup.

[markpj23]

Sean - you've exposed a few mates here who sound downright unfriendly! Suggesting that even at anchor the "pests" will still come by.... And that some will even bother you with conversation. I had no idea how bad a situation I was getting myself into...

Isn't part of cruising also socializing? And if so, don't the social skills learned ashore still need to be maintained?? This goes for both parties... being friendly and wanting to help should not cross the line behind which you should MYOB...

I guess sailing can provide the solitude some of these mates apparently need. I hope I never motor over to the wrong boat in the anchorage.... do they post signs or something so I'll know? Or should I carry a sign that says "no advice given" so they'll know I just want to say 'hi' ? Or should I give up the cruising idea and join a bridge club?

So as the owner of a new floating B&B - how many customers do you anticipate having to tell to keep their advice to themselves? Not everyone would feel comfortable having paying guests aboard ( myself for one ) and it seems that your new line of business may invite more of the unsolicited comments / advice you've come to hate?

Not being critical - just wonder how you've resolved that in your mind. I'm certain you've already considered this and have a plan.

God give me the wisdom to never offer assistance to one who does not want it.. and the sense to know when it's time to shut up... so I'll end this post now

[ssullivan]

markpj23 once whispered in the wind:


So as the owner of a new floating B&B - how many customers do you anticipate having to tell to keep their advice to themselves? Not everyone would feel comfortable having paying guests aboard ( myself for one ) and it seems that your new line of business may invite more of the unsolicited comments / advice you've come to hate?

Not being critical - just wonder how you've resolved that in your mind. I'm certain you've already considered this and have a plan.

These are 2 situations that are a HUGE difference really:

Situation #1: Some yahoo preaching to me about how to fill a water tank from the dock wastes my time, which could be better used serving my customers or obtaining new ones.

Situation #2: A paying customer is always right. So if the customer wants a certain thing, that's what they get. If you read the website and listen to the interview at moosemeals.com, you'll see we say this over and over again. It's a mantra for us, coming from a background in business.

That's the real difference...

PS: I would also like to mention that I have yet to run into anyone on this board that is less than friendly. These people are the salt of the Earth. Best people you could ever share a space on the internet with. No question.

I would also like to add some perspective. After extensive conversations with Sean, as well as a couple of other contributors to this thread that share this same point of view, In order to draw critisizm from these people, the offender would have to have been way out of line. I know in the case of the boat yard troll waking me up on my boat on a Saturday, just to critisize, not help, I feel I showed admirable restraint.
As for dealing with charter guests that want to tell you all the things you have done wrong with your boat. seriously, listen to the show Sean mentioned. The question was asked, and the answer is as professional as you will ever hear.

It was brought to my attention that the link Sean mentioned confused a couple of people. My show is at http://www.moosemeals.com/seas.htm
If you go to moosemeals.com, from the quick pick dropdown, choose "With Wind and Seas".

[markpj23]

The more I think about this I realize that it's probably not much different than what I've experienced while rebuilding some old cars at the base auto shop. Some people just HAVE to offer advice, and you must sort out good from bad.

Let's hope the water hose guy never forks over the cash for a week's charter. Sean would need rehab afterwards

[troyboat]

Sully: Please don't take this the wrong way. Lighten up. When this happens it causes you stress and that is not healthy. Men are generally the ones to give unsolicited advice and men generally resentfull for getting same. I've been a trim carpenter for almost 30 years. I know a lot and have a lot of skill at using the tools of the trade. I don't know everything. I've had humbling experiences learning new methods from less experienced people and have had to tell more experienced to piss off because they were just plain wrong.
Sometimes the uninformed person has the obvious answer to a problem because they can think "outside the box". I also realize somebody telling you how to fill your water tanks can be an annoyance but it's definetley not worth the years off your life caused by stress.
Stress: When ones mind overrides ones body's need to choke the living s**t out of someone who desperately needs it.

STRESS? WHAT STRESS? WHO'S STRESSED? I'M NOT STRESSED!
Actually, I work better under stress. I need more stress!

[CaptainK]

MORE MORE MORE!!!

[ssullivan]

troyboat once whispered in the wind:
I also realize somebody telling you how to fill your water tanks can be an annoyance but it's definetley not worth the years off your life caused by stress.

Wow... this thread bubbled back up to the top. I agree with everything you say, troyboat. I guess the root of it all is that I am on such a tight schedule to try and get this boat ready that any waste of time (listening to someone give a 10 minute disseration on how to fill a water tank) is quite stressful.

I know I quote the Simpsons too much, but my wife and I call these people "time burglers."

PS: Choking people.... that would shorten the dissertations and probably keep people from stopping by... ha ha ha