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boatpoker · 06-02-2018, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlgray

There is no DAY SHAPE, that must be some kind of american invetion

I'm surprised that a Master Mariner ( Unlimited Master, any vessel any ocean) has never heard the term "day shape".

**TrentePieds** · 06-02-2018, 13:34

Well, yes, Boatpoker, that WOULD be unusual. But perhaps we can help our friend along by referring him here:

Part C - Lights and shapes - OTEN Maritime Studies - Maritime Training for GPH, Coxswain, Master, Deck Watchkeeper and Marine Engine Driver (MED) qualifications.

A gentle scull around in the rest of this publication is useful as a "refresher" for those of us who are so ancient that memory is no longer reliable :-)

TP

earlgray · 06-02-2018, 13:46

shapes, yes, when you are aground you are going to tell AB or bosun, go and hoist day shape, which one, diamond, ball, or cone .... like marine engine driver...DRIVER, ahahahaha....only in merica.

**skipmac** · 06-02-2018, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlgray

shapes, yes, when you are aground you are going to tell AB or bosun, go and hoist day shape, which one, diamond, ball, or cone .... like marine engine driver...DRIVER, ahahahaha....only in merica.

Day shapes is the inclusive term for any and all of the various shapes and combination of shapes used in daytime to indicate anchored, sailboat under power, etc, etc, etc. and seems to be used throughout the English speaking world.

Of course when hoisting a shape one would have to specify which one.

The terminology is no stranger that referring to lights on a boat. When instructing a crew member to turn on a light you might have to specify running lights, steaming light, anchor light, etc. But they're still all lights. Just like those balls and cones are still day shapes.

Doesn't seem that strange to me.

RNLI referrs to shapes. https://transportsafety.vic.gov.au/_...s-VBSH2015.pdf

Austrailian regs refer to day shapes https://transportsafety.vic.gov.au/_...s-VBSH2015.pdf

There are plenty more but this should be sufficient?

boatpoker · 06-02-2018, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlgray

shapes, yes, when you are aground you are going to tell AB or bosun, go and hoist day shape, which one, diamond, ball, or cone .... like marine engine driver...DRIVER, ahahahaha....only in merica.

Are you absolutely sure you are a Master Mariner ?

**TrentePieds** · 06-02-2018, 17:51

Re #65:

I wondered that and went in search of such an assertion. Prolly missed it for the same reason that I called an anchoring ball a radar reflector.

But worry not, all you denizens of the Salish Sea - my eye operation is coming up in April. It'll be wonderful not to have to navigate by Braille and dock by ear any more ;-)

TP

boatpoker · 06-02-2018, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Re #65:

I wondered that and went in search of such an assertion. Prolly missed it for the same reason that I called an anchoring ball a radar reflector.

But worry not, all you denizens of the Salish Sea - my eye operation is coming up in April. It'll be wonderful not to have to navigate by Braille and dock by ear any more ;-)

TP

#27 in the "Aground at Elbow Key" thread.

**TrentePieds** · 06-02-2018, 20:12

Uhm, yes - that was pretty unambiguous!

Thanx :-)

TP

goat · 06-02-2018, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by evm1024

Being American I might be a bit biased....

I think that you can find some really ugly Americans but in general we are a very nice crowd.

I've been climbing all over the world - Pakistan, Chile, Argentina, Peru to name a few.In all those places the locals in the mountain villages all say that they find Americans to be respectful, nice and generous. In some cases the locals say that American are the nicest.

Perhaps that us just a local saying that the country you come from is the best but I'm not so sure.

As you noted when you get out with "normal" Americans you will be welcomed.

Just an observation.

No problemo amigo. The ugly America rarely travels. The good people of any country are the ones who go out of their way to learn about other cultures.

Argyle38 · 06-02-2018, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFS Klopas

Citations Special Anchorage: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/109.10

Designated Anchorage: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/109.05

Note that this is US law, not COLREGS.

Thanks for the reply, Cornell Law is a great resource for stuff like this.

These links however are just the laws that give the CG the authority to designate special anchorages. The verbiage is very simililar to what you find in the Colregs regarding special anchorages that do not require lights or shapes.

My question was really, is there any statement about the difference between these "special" anchorages and any other defined anchorages that show up on charts. The law does not address that and neither do the Colregs, which creates a moderately confusing situation.

In curiosity, I checked out a chart of an area where I was pretty sure there was a "special anchorage," Newport Harbor. Looking at chart 13223, there are anchorages 1, 2, and 3 in Newport harbor, and other anchorages with letter designations scattered over the rest of the chart. A magenta note in the upper left of the chart explains that the lettered anchorages are naval and general anchorages, while 1, 2, and, 3 are special anchorages.

So my interpretation of that would be that if you were in a general anchorage, you still are obligated to use your anchor light (and a day shape, technically) , but not in the special anchorage. The only way of knowing which one you are in is the word "special" versus "general" in the description.

I would say Markpierce is correct in stating that most people don't know the difference, I certainly didn't, so thanks to him for pointing this out. However, I would also say that it's the Coast Guard's fault that they don't know the difference. Probably just one of those things that has not been brought up before, perhaps because they don't generally enforce anchor light regulations and certainly don't enforce day shape regulations.

Incidentally, the phrase "General Anchorage" doesn't show up anywhere in the Colregs, which begs the question, what are they?

**Dockhead** · 06-02-2018, 22:52

Concerning the anchor light -- in the U.S., it is the custom that you may dispense with the anchor light in a "recognized anchorage". I don't think that's a good idea, and I always showed one myself, but that is the custom.

Concerning the anchor ball -- this requirement is simply ignored, and I admit that I was one of the guilty when I was based in the U.S. I don't think you could even buy an anchor ball over there and I've definitely never seen one in use in U.S. waters.

Alan Mighty · 06-02-2018, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't think you could even buy an anchor ball over there and I've definitely never seen one in use in U.S. waters.

Not so! I bought one from West Marine before leaving the continental US.

https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=black+anchor+ball

**Dockhead** · 06-02-2018, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Still I have never seen one used.
Once or twice on large Commercial vessels, but never on any pleasure Boat.
I ought to get one just as a conversation starter.
Q. What’s that?
A. It’s an anchor ball.
Q. Does it float or something? How does it work, what does it do?
A. It lets people know your anchored.
Q. How does it do that?

I'll send you one and you can start a trend.

Mike OReilly · 06-02-2018, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Concerning the anchor light -- in the U.S., it is the custom that you may dispense with the anchor light in a "recognized anchorage". I don't think that's a good idea, and I always showed one myself, but that is the custom.

Concerning the anchor ball -- this requirement is simply ignored, and I admit that I was one of the guilty when I was based in the U.S. I don't think you could even buy an anchor ball over there and I've definitely never seen one in use in U.S. waters.

I guess I can add a ditto for Canadian waters as well … at least in my experience.

In designated anchorages the common practice is to dispense with anchor lights (a practice I DO NOT follow). And I have never, ever, seen a day shape in use on a recreational vessel.