experience with Florida taxes after purchase

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Crazcarl

I am planning on purchasing a boat. The survey and exchange will technically happen in Florida, however, neither of us are from Florida, or plan on staying or living in Florida. This is a private sale without a Broker. Do I have to file paperwork stating I am leaving the state after the sale? How long do I have? Anyone with experiences in this? I know this is not tax advice, but I have heard some people have been in Florida for years without paying, I am just wondering if I can stay a couple extra weeks before leaving after purchase, or if I need to leave soon after. Thanks all

With all due respect to this forum I would call the Florida Department of Revenue and get the latest word as well as the page and verse on the law; then look it up considering the money involved. You can expect to be contacted by Florida Revenue at some time later so keep all your receipts. I bought through a dealer but was still contacted months later and had to prove when I moved the boat out of the state. My home state (Washington) collected the tax when I registered the boat.

In addition contact your insurance company and tell them yours plans. The rate for your insurance may very well be cheaper in your home state than Florida. Mine gave me a three month addition for being in Florida until I could get the boat out and credit for whatever I didn't use.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by guyrj33

good chance they used the USCG documentation records. Then sent out a demand letter. That's what Massachusetts did to me, and they had my sales tax payment and record.

That is a good point. My boat is documented (as the OP also stated they intended to do) and of course part of being documented means putting your doc number using 3" or bigger numbers on your stern. So not out of the realm of reason that they use the bridge keepers/marinas/fuel docks to get your doc number and the CG database to correlate it and send the letter. The guys reporting they got away with it more than likely had boats that were already FL state registered and left the registration stickers on, so no reason for the system they have set up to flag them especially if the original owner never reported them sold or reported it much later.

Which of course leads to horrible advice for the OP given that they specifically aren't going to be in that situation since they specifically said they did intend to document the boat with the CG.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Moontide

I presume the Florida tax laws only apply to sales that take place in FL. On the west coast "off shore" transactions are common. Need to do some documenting (California is tough on this). Take pictures of the GPS showing over 3 miles out, don't sign the bill of sale until you're out there. Some even go to the extreme of having the new owner come out in another boat and transfer to the new boat, with the seller returning to shore on the 2nd boat. Filming it all would be best.



If this is done the sale did not take place in Florida and I would think the taxers would have a hard time claiming jurisdiction.



Have travelled throughout the state since any only issue was no registration on my dinghy when I came back from the Caribbean. One sherrif actually said I was going to jail if he saw the dinghy again. (Memorial Day weekend in the keys). Total pr__k. This was on a dinghy that had been out of the country for 2 or 3 years and had a very expired California registration. Work around was to keep rolling over a bill of sale on the dinghy that was only a couple of weeks old.


On the other hand, as other posters have said, how will the taxers even know if the ownership changed hands if not registering it there. Especially if the new owner has an out of state address.

A dinghy is a separate vessel, that requires registration depending on the specific rules of the jurisdiction. In Florida if the dinghy is motorized it requires its own registration. Your dinghy's parent vessel does not provide any cover to the dinghy's status. Think about it, why should it?

Incorrect assumption and apparent confusion regarding the distinction between sale and use taxation. Never assume. Use taxation [the equivalent privilege taxation as sales taxation] becomes applicable for sales that occur out of state.

As per post #22 above pertaining specifically to private sale, a sale where there is NOT a registered dealer / broker involved. Separate rules apply when a registered broker is engaged, they will handle the taxation issues and the issuance of affidavits of exemption.
Per Florida's Department of Revenue guidance document:

When a boat is sold by someone other than a registered boat dealer or a boat is brought into Florida for use in Florida, Florida use tax is due. The “use” part of Florida’s sales and use tax provides uniform taxation of items. Florida’s six percent (6%) use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, is due on a boat used or stored in Florida when:
• The boat is purchased from a person who is not a registered boat dealer and the sale or delivery of the boat occurs in Florida;
• The boat is purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or District of Columbia and is brought into Florida within six (6) months of the purchase date; or
• The boat is purchased in a foreign country and is brought into Florida at any time.
When the purchaser does not pay Florida sales and use tax to the seller for a boat purchase, any sales and use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, is paid to the county tax collector, licensed private tag agency, or the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles when registering the boat in Florida.

When is Tax Due?
Unless exempt, a boat must be titled or registered in Florida with any county tax collector, licensed private tag agency, or the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles:
• Within 30 days of the purchase date or the date the boat entered Florida; or
• Within 90 days after the boat enters Florida, when the boat is documented, licensed, titled, or registered in another state.
Florida use tax, plus any applicable discretionary sales surtax, due on a boat purchased in Florida or brought into Florida within six (6) months of the date of purchase, is paid at the time of licensing, titling, or registering the boat in Florida.

[Dave22q]

You are assuming a small risk. If you do not pay sales tax, register the boat and title in Florida you are exposed. If the boat has a current sticker you should have no problem. If it lacks a current registration sticker, you risk having to make a lengthy explanation to an unsympathetic cop. If no sticker, I would make tracks.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

You are assuming a small risk. If you do not pay sales tax, register the boat and title in Florida you are exposed. If the boat has a current sticker you should have no problem. If it lacks a current registration sticker, you risk having to make a lengthy explanation to an unsympathetic cop. If no sticker, I would make tracks.

If you get stopped without a proper registration, you're also going to have issues.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Crazcarl

I am planning on purchasing a boat. The survey and exchange will technically happen in Florida, however, neither of us are from Florida, or plan on staying or living in Florida. This is a private sale without a Broker. Do I have to file paperwork stating I am leaving the state after the sale? How long do I have? Anyone with experiences in this? I know this is not tax advice, but I have heard some people have been in Florida for years without paying, I am just wondering if I can stay a couple extra weeks before leaving after purchase, or if I need to leave soon after. Thanks all

As a Floridian let’s start with- what is fair?

Will the boat be in FLA? If so you will expect police, & fire protection. You will be a consumer of things that your sales tax helps pay for. So why not pay your fair share?

Sorry if you find this offensive. There are no free rides. If you do not contribute for the services you consume, others foot the bill.

That said, if you are not staying in FLA, there are options. Keep it here for the max period, move it to Bimini for a while and then head to wherever. Or simply leave here and do a long hop to GA or AL. I have actually done a “tax dodge” delivery or two.

[Crazcarl]

Wow a ton of responses, thank you all. I am assuming I will pay tax on all the goods I purchase directly from a store, including flights into and out of Florida. I do not think its my fair share to pay $18k for myself to only be in the state for 2 weeks.

The boat is currently USCG Documented, and state registered in DE, which I am going to do the same thing. It will not be titled or registered in FL. I am from NY, but will not have the boat in NY for more than 90 straight days, as we will be traveling to Erie PA for a week or so during the summer and will make sure to get fuel receipts while down there. Then we will be out of NY in September and slowly make our way back down, making sure to be out of Florida for more than 6 months, then maybe stopping there briefly before hopping over to the Bahamas! Our family has been planning this change for 5 years!! and it is almost here.

I guess the only way FL could know there was a sale, is if they saw the contract or closing. I am just not sure how the state would even know the sale took place. Do they send a tax bill to every out of state boat that enters FL? and just hope they cannot produce the receipts or other proof that they were not there the whole time?

I think the big thing that many people are missing is that there is no broker involved. I have talked to a couple brokers about them taking on the paperwork and signing the affidavit, and one wants to charge $1200, and another $5000.

I may just use the lower broker for essentially peace of mind.

[Crazcarl]

Originally Posted by Stmurray62

I am a FL licensed Broker. A Non resident May purchase a boat in Florida, without paying FL sales tax. However, they MUST file an affidavit stating that y’all are non residents. Also, once filed with state, you are allowed 90 days to keep vessel in FL, or you can file for another 90 day extension. So, check with Florida Dept of Revenue for relevant documents. Or call/text me and I’ll send docs to you. 904 557 6932, stmurray62 @gmail.com

Hi Stmurray62, But only a broker or dealer can file the affidavit from what I have read and heard. Is this not correct?

[Montanan]

You are making the deal more complicated and expensive by engaging a broker for a private sale transaction. Just move it out of Florida waters within 10 days after you complete your private sale [no retail broker engaged transaction] so as to not invoke the use taxation.

http://https://floridarevenue.com/Fo...t/gt800005.pdf

Penalty and Interest
Anyone who purchases a boat and obtains a tax exemption as a nonresident purchaser is subject to Florida use tax, discretionary sales surtax, interest, and penalties (including a mandatory penalty equal to the tax) when:
• A boat that bears a decal set remains in Florida after the expiration of the decal;
• A boat that does not bear a decal set and is not in a Florida registered repair facility remains in Florida more than 10 days from the date of purchase;
• A boat that does not bear a decal set and that was in a Florida registered repair facility remains in Florida more than 20 days from the date the repairs or alterations were completed;
• A boat returns to Florida within six (6) months from the date of departure, is not placed in a Florida registered repair facility, and stays in Florida more than 20 days; or
• The nonresident purchaser does not furnish the Department with the required documentation.
A purchaser who attempts to evade tax by submitting a fraudulent affidavit is subject to the tax due, interest, and a mandatory 200 percent penalty (according to section 213.29, Florida Statutes). The purchaser is also subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to 5 years in prison.

[Crazcarl]

Originally Posted by Montanan

You are making the deal more complicated and expensive by engaging a broker for a private sale transaction. Just move it out of Florida waters within 10 days after you complete your private sale [no retail broker engaged transaction] so as to not invoke the use taxation.

http://https://floridarevenue.com/Fo...t/gt800005.pdf

Penalty and Interest
Anyone who purchases a boat and obtains a tax exemption as a nonresident purchaser is subject to Florida use tax, discretionary sales surtax, interest, and penalties (including a mandatory penalty equal to the tax) when:
• A boat that bears a decal set remains in Florida after the expiration of the decal;
• A boat that does not bear a decal set and is not in a Florida registered repair facility remains in Florida more than 10 days from the date of purchase;
• A boat that does not bear a decal set and that was in a Florida registered repair facility remains in Florida more than 20 days from the date the repairs or alterations were completed;
• A boat returns to Florida within six (6) months from the date of departure, is not placed in a Florida registered repair facility, and stays in Florida more than 20 days; or
• The nonresident purchaser does not furnish the Department with the required documentation.
A purchaser who attempts to evade tax by submitting a fraudulent affidavit is subject to the tax due, interest, and a mandatory 200 percent penalty (according to section 213.29, Florida Statutes). The purchaser is also subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to 5 years in prison.

The issue is we were staying till end of April, which would be 20 ish days.

I guess we could potentially leave earlier. We cannot enter the Erie canal until May 15th, so that is a possibility.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Crazcarl

Hi Stmurray62, But only a broker or dealer can file the affidavit from what I have read and heard. Is this not correct?

That's what the form indicates as the broker has to provide their information and send it in, else the broker must collect the sale tax. And then the buyer has to provide the State with documentary proof of the boat leaving the State within the time period.

Whereas when there isn't a registered broker involved as is the instance with a private sale then the buyer has to pay use tax, agaib unless the boat promptly departs Florida.

The broker approach does not avail more time than the private sale as to the boat leaving the State. If the boat stays in the State it is being used in the State unless it is kept in a registered repair facility undergoing repairs. The time it is being actually repaired stops the clock. Storage does not stop the clock as to days before it must leave to avoid the Florida Sales or Use taxes.

This is very similar to California's sales and use taxation exemption. Except California has a long coast line to travel north to get to Oregon and one is running uphill against wind and current and waves going to the Pacific Northwest which makes it dangerous to not stop in a harbors just to avoid the privilege taxes of sales and use transactions.

[billknny]

As an additional data point, we have had a fairly complex situation with the Florida sales tax on our boat purchase. We have found the staff at the state tax office to uniformly helpful. They give straight answers, and know the rules well. They can tell you exactly WHY the answer they are giving you is the right one. They even return phone calls.

This is 180 degrees different than trying to deal with California...

[Crazcarl]

Originally Posted by billknny

As an additional data point, we have had a fairly complex situation with the Florida sales tax on our boat purchase. We have found the staff at the state tax office to uniformly helpful. They give straight answers, and know the rules well. They can tell you exactly WHY the answer they are giving you is the right one. They even return phone calls.

This is 180 degrees different than trying to deal with California...

Wow, that is quite different than I would expect. I will try to give them a call tomorrow. Thanks

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by billknny

As an additional data point, we have had a fairly complex situation with the Florida sales tax on our boat purchase. We have found the staff at the state tax office to uniformly helpful.

Just want to emphasize, you want to call the state tax office, not a local county office. I find that it is very hit-or-miss as to the quality of the information you get if you call a county office.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by billknny

As an additional data point, we have had a fairly complex situation with the Florida sales tax on our boat purchase. We have found the staff at the state tax office to uniformly helpful. They give straight answers, and know the rules well. They can tell you exactly WHY the answer they are giving you is the right one. They even return phone calls.

This is 180 degrees different than trying to deal with California...

I can't speak to sales' tax on a purchase in California, but getting free of property tax once you leave the state is notoriously difficult. However, my experience was easy and I had no problem finding a real person to talk with and trade emails. To my knowledge, my Willard 36 has been in California since she was launched in 1970. In October 2018 when I left San Francisco for Ensenada, I forwarded them an email from my marina stating I was relinquishing my slip and that was it. I guess they go through marina roles in Q1 of each year and count noses (boats) so if I were still around, they'd find me eventually. Or it could be I'm just not worth the effort.



Peter