Florida

[smj]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Ok.... I assisted the purchase of a 44' Lagoon for a Canadian resident... I THOUGHT she had Documented it in the US, but it's possible she Documented in Canada.... I do know that if she ever took the boat home she would own duty.... Another thought would be to create an LLC and have the boat held there... Or.... if FLORIDA title.... Just ask the seller not to enter the dollar amount on the title.... MANY states don't even have the dollar amount on the titles.... So you just need an "ahem" bill of sale.... I am a Florida resident and their rules are pretty easy to skirt if you have a desire to do so.

I believe you have to state the sales price when applying for a Florida title. To understate or lie about the sales price is a serious crime.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Ok.... I assisted the purchase of a 44' Lagoon for a Canadian resident... I THOUGHT she had Documented it in the US, but it's possible she Documented in Canada.... I do know that if she ever took the boat home she would own duty.... Another thought would be to create an LLC and have the boat held there... Or.... if FLORIDA title.... Just ask the seller not to enter the dollar amount on the title.... MANY states don't even have the dollar amount on the titles.... So you just need an "ahem" bill of sale.... I am a Florida resident and their rules are pretty easy to skirt if you have a desire to do so.

Most states now have a "book price" they go by unless you are in the ballpark of their book price.

[John Kemp 14512]

Grin.... Thanks to law abiding folks like you, we can keep our state funded. Preach elsewhere, I'll place my "donations" where they do the most good.

[John Kemp 14512]

Yes.... Unless you purchased a boat with the engines non-functional, water damage, etc etc.... Come on you guys... If you're not smart enough to figure this stuff out, you deserve to pay the sailboats full sales tax that the state has likely collected from each owner thru the 10x~ it sold.....

[smj]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Yes.... Unless you purchased a boat with the engines non-functional, water damage, etc etc.... Come on you guys... If you're not smart enough to figure this stuff out, you deserve to pay the sailboats full sales tax that the state has likely collected from each owner thru the 10x~ it sold.....

Nothing to do with smarts, all to do with honesty. And if you can’t afford the sales tax maybe you can’t afford the boat.

[John Kemp 14512]

You say so. Your tax dollars are currently at work led by politicians who have anything but your well being in their interests. I prefer to place my donations where I know they will do the most good.

[smj]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

You say so. Your tax dollars are currently at work led by politicians who have anything but your well being in their interests. I prefer to place my donations where I know they will do the most good.

Tax dollars aren’t donations, and sure we would all love to hold onto every last dime that we could.
I don’t find paying ones owed taxes as being a character flaw, the exact opposite.

[John Kemp 14512]

Another weenie who MUST have the last word.... Ok, it's ALL YOURS! Make it count. I'm done with your foolishness.

To the gent who posted this original thread, feel free to reach out privately. I'll help walk you thru your best choices given your goals.

[smj]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Another weenie who MUST have the last word.... Ok, it's ALL YOURS! Make it count. I'm done with your foolishness.

To the gent who posted this original thread, feel free to reach out privately. I'll help walk you thru your best choices given your goals.

Yep, I’m the dumb one for legally paying my taxes, and your the smart one. Maybe smarter if you didn’t use your name and zip code when posting statements like this on a public forum. If a dumb one like me can find you on the internet in 3 minutes I guess others could as well. I’ll go back to being the dumb weenie now.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Reading thru these threads.... People are bat **** crazy.... A 40 foot sailboat is PERFECT for Florida, just be certain to understand the passes and such... The Keys in particular are especially tricky.... When uncertain of a passage, I typically go at a lower tide to ensure that I'll have a couple of foot more water under me in a few hours. :-) That damned pass at Fleming Key took a while to master at night with no lit Nav Aids.... :-)

John, sorry, but you sound like the stereotypical New Yorker who moves to Florida and of course is certain that he knows more about everything than anyone else.


I've lived and sailed in Florida for 45 years, much of it in Fort Lauderdale, and I learned long ago to tune out folks like you when you mount your high horses.



Anyone who knows about sailboats knows that many 40-footers have drafts of 5.5, 6.5 and even 7.5 feet.



That's difficult if not impossible to manage if you hope to see much of Florida beyond sailing from major port to major port. Try getting into Cayo Costa, Sarasota, Crystal River, Cedar Key, the Florida Bay ICW, any marina on the eastern side of the Keys, northern Biscayne Bay, Stuart, etc., etc., etc.


As for you advice on avoiding/minimizing sales tax, it sure sounds like you are speaking from personal experience. It sure isn't smart to brag about that in a public forum.



All it would take is someone here deciding to turn you in to the Florida Department of Revenue. The penalty is 200 percent of the original tax plus various other fees.



If you signed an affidavit swearing you were taking the boat out of Florida, that is a felony.

[John Kemp 14512]

57 years as a Florida resident, thanks. I have a 44 Bruce Roberts that I single hand daily... Feel free to call whomever you like to report "whatever"... A 911 call for an active shooter at a school locally took 14 minutes to respond.... I was trying to help an individual who asked an honest question. If you feel it your civic duty to attempt to "shame" me.... Well good luck with that. Very clearly. This forum is meant for an honest exchange among those of us who live on the sea.... If you have problems with my politics or ethics, this is NOT the place.... Thank you soooooo much .

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Ok.... I assisted the purchase of a 44' Lagoon for a Canadian resident... I THOUGHT she had Documented it in the US, but it's possible she Documented in Canada.... I do know that if she ever took the boat home she would own duty.... Another thought would be to create an LLC and have the boat held there... Or.... if FLORIDA title.... Just ask the seller not to enter the dollar amount on the title.... MANY states don't even have the dollar amount on the titles.... So you just need an "ahem" bill of sale.... I am a Florida resident and their rules are pretty easy to skirt if you have a desire to do so.

Proposing illegal actions is just wrong and clearly against the CruiserForum's usage standards.



Florida Sales Tax - Theft of State Funds

It is the legislative intent in Florida that it is a taxable privilege to be in the business of selling tangible personal property, or providing certain enumerated taxable services. As such, anyone in the business of selling these goods or services must collect sales tax from their customers, and remit to the State of Florida. Sales tax money is property of the state from the time of collection by a merchant from their customer. The money is considered trust funds, collected by a business for the benefit of the state, and failure to remit these trust funds over to the state is a crime. Section 212.15(2), Florida Statutes declares

Any person who, with intent to unlawfully deprive or defraud the state of its moneys or the use or benefit thereof, fails to remit taxes collected under this chapter is guilty of theft of state funds…

Penalties for Sales Tax Fraud - Theft of State Funds
$301 – $20,000:

3rd degree felony
5 years in prison
$5,000 in fines

​$20,001 –$100,000:

2nd degree felony
15 years in prison
$10,000 in fines


More than $100,000:

1st degree felony
30 years in prison
$10,000 in fines

Failure to Remove Boat or Aircraft within 10 days of purchase, 90 days for 'qualifying' purchase, 20 days after repair, or returned within 6 months.

100% penalty if not removed within required days [§212.05(a)(a)2]

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yes, just move out within 90 days. You can buy a boat, move through the adjacent states, then sail the Caribe for 3 years, bring it back to FL to sell and never pay any sales tax in the US.

As mentioned above, you need to establish some sort of ownership document though. As a foreigner, not sure how you do that, but I imagine there is a way. You need this document to check in and out of various islands.
There are marine escrow and title places in FL that would know how I suppose.
I tried to register a boat in my home state but when I told them the boat was not in the state they wouldn't let me. So if you intend to do that, I wouldn't bring up where the boat is.

A vessel is only validly registered with the State of Principle Use and the State of Principle use changes if the boats usage changes during the year that it was originally registered. Each State defines the maximum period of temporary usage of their territory before the boat requires registration in their State. One has to attest under penalty of perjury that the facts of the registration document are true. To lie about the State of Principle usage is to subject one to onerous fines and jail time.

By way of example:

Maryland: State of principal use – “State of principal use” means the jurisdiction on whose waters a vessel is used or to be used most during a calendar year which is the period from January 1 through December 31.

California:
4.030 Registration of Vessels Previously Registered Out of State (CVC §§9854, 9873)

For a vessel previously registered in another state or country, have the applicant complete an Application for Registration Number Certificate Ownership and Undocumented Vessel BOAT 101). Accept applications only for vessels where the state of principal use is shown as California. California vessel registration is required within 120 days (30 after the 90-day reciprocity period) of the date of entry into California, if the state of principle use changes from another state to California or penalties are due. Whenever penalties are due on an original application, use tax penalties are also due. The following documents required:

Certificate of Ownership from the state where the vessel was last titles. (For nontitling state requirements see Section 4.020). If proof of ownership cannot be established, and the value of the vessel is $2,000 or more, submit a bond equal to the value of the vessel as part of the application (see Chapter 5, Proof of Ownership).
Certificate of Number where formerly registered or a letter of registration verification from that state. (See Chapter 8, Out-of-State Vessel Registration Information). All documents must accompany the application.

Any vessel previously registered in California and subsequently registered in another state will be issued a new CF number upon reregistration in California (submit the old California Certificate of Ownership, if available, with the application).

Fees are required prior to first operation. Submit the fee for a nonresident vessel, plus use tax if the vessel was brought into California within 90 days of the date of purchase in another state. If the fee is paid late, a penalty is due plus a 10 percent use tax penalty. (See Chapter 3 for vessel fees and additional use tax information).

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by cooper1991

So if I buy the boat and sail to say Bahamas immediately, I can avoid tax?

Buy from a private owner , register in grand Cayman or Bahamas via mail --forget any tax crappy.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Buy from a private owner , register in grand Cayman or Bahamas via mail --forget any tax crappy.

As to the Bahamas, a VAT is due for registration of pleasure boats [applicable for those vessels not registered elsewhere and entered into the Bahamas under a cruising permit]:

As of 2015, the Bahamanian government levies a value-added tax (VAT) on all practically all goods and services sold in The Bahamas.

The standard VAT rate started at 7.5% and was bumped up to 12% effective July 1, 2018.


“registrable goods” —
(a) means goods requiring registration under any law for the
time being in force within The Bahamas whereby a
registering authority issues to the applicant upon registration
a permit, licence, certificate, or other authorisation;
(b) includes an aircraft, boat, fishing vessel, ship, yacht, motor
cycle, motor vehicle, tractor, caravan, firearms, or trailer;

Registration of goods prohibited until payment of tax.
(1) An authority which is a registering authority pursuant to any law in force
within The Bahamas must not register the ownership of, or a change of
ownership in, any registrable goods which is a taxable supply by a taxable
person or a taxable importation unless the applicant for registration
produces to the authority —
(a) in case of a taxable importation, a Customs receipt or other
document issued by the Comptroller of Customs certifying that the
import —
(i) is standard rated at seven and one half per cent of its value
and value added tax payable under this Act has been paid in
full in respect of the import;
(ii) is zero rated and no tax is payable under this Act in respect of
the import;
(b) in case of a taxable supply, a declaration in the prescribed form by
the registrant supplier certifying —
(i) that the registrant supplied the goods;
(ii) the rate of tax charged on the supply by the registrant
supplier;
(iii) that the output tax payable under this Act on the supply has
been or will be paid in full by the registrant.
(2) A registering authority must not register the ownership of, or a change of
ownership in —
(a) any registrable goods which is an exempt supply or an exempt
importation unless the applicant for registration produces to the
registering authority a certificate issued by the Comptroller of VAT
in the prescribed form certifying that the supply or importation of
such goods is an exempt supply or an exempt importation, as the
case may be;
(b) any registrable goods supplied by a person who is not a registrant
for which a refund or exemption under this Act has been granted
unless the applicant for registration produces to the registering
authority a certificate issued by the Comptroller of VAT or the
Comptroller of Customs in the prescribed form, certifying that the
tax payable under this Act has been paid in full.