Florida

[Montanan]

As to the Cayman Islands:

There is NO VAT on the Cayman Islands.

But there is import duties on the arrival of boat to be registered as Cayman vessel.

Ships, Fishing Boats, Yachts, Other Craft and Aircraft require special mention because, in addition to their being within the definition of “goods” (i.e. a form of merchandise that can be bought or sold), they are themselves carriers of goods, passengers and crew. As such they are not formally required to be entered each time they arrive from abroad- although they must of course, report their arrival to Customs and Border Control in the proper manner. Until this has been done, no passengers or crew are allowed to disembark. Customs clearance must be obtained before a ship or aircraft may depart. This requirement applies even to vessels, which are journeying “coastwise” (i.e. to Cayman Brac or Little Cayman). An Import Entry (C1) is required when a previously foreign-owned vessel is purchased by a Cayman resident and subsequently arrives for the first time in the Cayman Islands, whether or not duty is payable on it. Import Duty is not payable on ships, yachts and aircraft, which are used exclusively on international voyages. Duty is payable on other classes of ships, boats, yachts and vessels. Boats up to 18 feet are duty free, vessels exceeding 18 feet is dutiable at 12 % of the CIF value. Duty is payable on non-commercial aircraft (including company owned ‘executive aircraft’).

[OutOfControl]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Most states now have a "book price" they go by unless you are in the ballpark of their book price.

I have bought and sold numerous vehicles, trailers and a couple of boats. In Florida the seller puts the selling price on the certificate of title for a normal transaction.

A few times the seller told me to fill in the selling price myself.

I have only had one transaction disputed by the state and they sent a form for me to fill out. They wanted to know why the selling price was well below the vehicles blue book value. My answer was one word, "Wrecked", and I never heard from them again.

[John Kemp 14512]

Soooo very helpfull Montanon.... THANK YOU!!!!!

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Soooo very helpfull Montanon.... THANK YOU!!!!!

Glad to have been of assistance as to authoritative guidance.

FYI, the correct spelling for a person from The Last Best Place is Montanan.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by OutOfControl

I have bought and sold numerous vehicles, trailers and a couple of boats. In Florida the seller puts the selling price on the certificate of title for a normal transaction. Correct

A few times the seller told me to fill in the selling price myself. Dubious practice puts the private seller at considerable risk as to the Notice of Sale or as to the Bill of Sale. The buyer is subject to paying the Use taxation in Florida, no need for the Seller to become endangered by fraudulent reporting, since the privilege taxation burden is on the buyer.

I have only had one transaction disputed by the state and they sent a form for me to fill out. They wanted to know why the selling price was well below the vehicles blue book value. My answer was one word, "Wrecked", and I never heard from them again.

Indicative that they do review the sales price for reasonableness of value.

Reference to the required document to provide for transfer title in Florida.

Notice of Sale and/or Bill of Sale for a Motor Vehicle,
Mobile Home, Off-Highway Vehicle or Vessel

https://www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/forms/82050.pdf

For a Notice of Sale (Seller must complete sections 1 & 3). The purchaser’s signature in section 3 is optional.

For a Bill of Sale (Seller and purchaser must complete sections 1, 2 (when applicable) & 3)

Section 1 includes where the Seller writes the Selling Price.

Section 3 is the Certification of both the Seller and the Buyer as per the instructions above.

3. Certification
UNDER PENALTIES OF PERJURY, I DECLARE THAT I HAVE READ THE FOREGOING DOCUMENT AND THAT THE FACTS STATED IN IT ARE TRUE.


In Florida, “the offense of perjury in an official proceeding is a third-degree felony and is punishable by up to five years in prison.”

92.525 Verification of documents; perjury by false written declaration, penalty.—
(1) When it is authorized or required by law, by rule of an administrative agency, or by rule or order of court that a document be verified by a person, the verification may be accomplished in the following manner:
(a) Under oath or affirmation taken or administered before an officer authorized under s. 92.50 to administer oaths; or
(b) By the signing of the written declaration prescribed in subsection (2).
(2) A written declaration means the following statement: “Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read the foregoing [document] and that the facts stated in it are true,” followed by the signature of the person making the declaration, except when a verification on information or belief is permitted by law, in which case the words “to the best of my knowledge and belief” may be added. The written declaration shall be printed or typed at the end of or immediately below the document being verified and above the signature of the person making the declaration.
(3) A person who knowingly makes a false declaration under subsection (2) is guilty of the crime of perjury by false written declaration, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) As used in this section:
(a) The term “administrative agency” means any department or agency of the state or any county, municipality, special district, or other political subdivision.
(b) The term “document” means any writing including, without limitation, any form, application, claim, notice, tax return, inventory, affidavit, pleading, or paper.
(c) The requirement that a document be verified means that the document must be signed or executed by a person and that the person must state under oath or affirm that the facts or matters stated or recited in the document are true, or words of that import or effect.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Another weenie who MUST have the last word.... Ok, it's ALL YOURS! Make it count. I'm done with your foolishness.

To the gent who posted this original thread, feel free to reach out privately. I'll help walk you thru your best choices given your goals.

It's clear you know little about foreign registration, state registration, foreign licensing or USCG documentation, why are you offering "advice" ?

[John Kemp 14512]

Your Experience, does not negate my doubt....

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by John Kemp 14512

Your Experience, does not negate my doubt....

Dear John,

Boatpoker's expertise, experience and helpful insightful posts are well respected by many on the CruisersForum.

Whereas as to the nature of your comments and attitude expressed by your posts to this thread, . . . not so much.

Please don't persist in this manner.

Sincerely.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Wilyum

OP this part applies to you, 180 days to refit, then its off to Bimini for a stay. How long before you can return to Florida and apply for a cruising permit would be my next question…

Up to 180 days to refit are provided by two sequential purchasing of 90 day decals [basically short cruisers permits], but this is only available if the boat was purchased from a broker or dealer as they are the persons who have been issued such decals for sale to their boat buyers.

As far as I know, for private sales of boats [non-broker / non-dealer] the non-resident buyer is permitted only the 90 day grace period of boats that are registered in another State and are remaining in Florida before registration and use tax payment is required.

If the buyer does not register the boat in another State then they need to register in Florida within 30 days of purchase [and also title it unless they document it with the US Coast Guard, in which case no Florida titling is required].

Reference link: https://www.flhsmv.gov/motor-vehicle...registrations/

Snipet copied below.

A purchaser of a new or used vessel has 30 days to title and register that vessel. During this 30 day period, the owner must have proof of the date of purchase aboard the vessel. Operating an unregistered vessel after 30 days is a second-degree misdemeanor.

Exemptions from Titling

Vessels operated, used and stored exclusively on private lakes and ponds.
Vessels owned by the U.S. Government, the State of Florida or its political subdivisions.
Non-motor-powered vessels less than 16 feet in length.
Federally documented vessels.
A vessel already covered by a registration number in full force and effect which was awarded to it pursuant to a federally approved numbering system of another state or by the United States Coast Guard in a state without a federally approved numbering system, if the vessel is not located in this state for a period of more than 90 consecutive days.
Vessels from a country other than the United States temporarily used, operated or stored on the waters of this state for a period that is not more than 90 days.
Amphibious vessels which have been issued a vehicle title by FLHSMV.
Vessels used only for demonstration, testing or sales promotional purposes by a manufacturer or dealer.

[Montanan]

So Cooper, I have reviewed one of your earlier threads of late September 2021 as copied below. I added bolding to highlight some keen issues.

Titled: Buying in Southern Europe

"I am going round in circles. I want to buy a boat but live in Middle East where there is no market. I want to fly somewhere before end of January and get started but winter weather & covid is blocking some options eg UK, northern Europe, USA, Malaysia, Australia etc.

Where should I focus outside of the above countries?

I'm looking for a monohull, long keel, 1970-1992 sail boat in good condition and with decent inventory. I plan to sail for 3-4 years only. This will be my first boat so I'll need 6 months in one zone as will be learning to sail & maintain beyond RYA Day Skipper level.

Any suggestions? Croatia/Greece/Turkey?

How do I make a rationale for search when I have no knowledge of the markets in most countries"


My Comments:

Florida is typically pleasant in the winter, some may find it a bit cool and the water also cools a tad, refreshingly, but not for a Montanan, albeit the last time I was in Florida in January a few years ago it was much colder in Florida than it was in Montana. The alligators were very inactive and we did not bring cold weather clothing having spent two weeks vacationing in the Caribbean before touring the State of Florida. Of the nine days in Florida, there was only one day that was pleasant at a beach [achieving a high in the low 60's F]. It was below freezing during our tour to Savanah Georgia and near freezing in St. Augustine.

As to your stated desire for a "long keel" as others have commented previously in this thread, many of Florida's water ways tend to be thin as to depth. Recommend that you keep your water draft shallow, that also facilitates your early learning risk avoidance, at best, groundings can be a nuisance, and being precluded by water draft from safe or interesting passages is limiting.

So you are a UK citizen, please note as to your allowed visa length in the USA. You are limited to 90 cumulative days in a 2 year period. Plan accordingly.

The ESTA for UK citizens is a mandatory requirement to visit the United States. The ESTA is not a US visa for UK citizens, it is a travel authorization that allows British nationals to enter the United States. An ESTA holder can travel to the country for a period of up to 90 days.
ESTA stands for Electronic System for Travel Authorization and was first put into place in January 2009.

The ESTA is an obligatory travel document for citizens of 40 different countries.
It is a Visa Waiver Program (VWP) introduced as an alternative to a standard travel visa for visitors to the USA from certain countries, including the UK.

This means that if you are planning your holidays in the US or you have a business trip lined up stateside you will need to apply for an ESTA before departing.

Regardless of the reason for which you are traveling to the USA, if you comply with the following, you are eligible for the quick and easy ESTA visa waiver:

Have a valid electronic passport
Are regarded as a British citizen
Your trip does not exceed 90 days’ duration

Overstaying 90 days


First of all, it’s good to clarify the two time periods associated with the ESTA. The travel authorisation itself is valid for 2 years from the time of receipt (unless your passport expires in this time), however you may not exceed a stay of over 90 consecutive days during these 2 years. If you want to stay longer, you must apply for the appropriate extended stay visa.

For those who are looking to stay in the USA for this length of time, it’s easy to interpret 90 days as about 3 months; this causes some people to book a return flight exactly 3 months after their outbound flight. It’s an easy mistake to make, but if you book your flights between July 4 and October 4, for example, then this exceeds 90 days.

If you make this mistake, the best thing you can do is re-arrange you return flight and comply with the ESTA agreement. Don’t worry, exceeding the 90 days won’t stop you from being able to return home, but it will probably cause complications the next time you try to enter the USA, meaning you will likely be denied reentry and then could be separated from your boat for an extended period..


Crossing the border and returning


For those staying in the USA for a long period of time, some people consider saving on the hassles of getting a visa by acquiring an ESTA and crossing a nearby border every 90 days (Canada or Mexico, for example). This won’t work. Border patrol agents are very aware of misuse of the ESTA, and the 90-day timer is not reset when crossing a neighbouring border. If you want to stay in the USA for more than 90 days, do some research into the type of visa you need and go through the formal procedures to avoid issues with border control.

Nota bene: Extended stay visas are presently very hard to get due to Covid protocols basically stopping the processing of in person interviews and applications at US embassies and consulates in foreign countries where such are processed before departure to the USA.

How long to stay outside of the USA before returning


The 2-year duration of the ESTA means that you can technically return as many times as you like during this time frame, as long as you never exceed the 90-day period. Nevertheless, you have to have a good reason for this, as you will undoubtedly have to explain your reasons to border agents when returning to the USA. Border officials are very aware of people crossing borders just to extend their stays, and will soon catch on if it the ESTA is being used incorrectly. Without a valid reason to return to the USA shortly after having just left, it is quite possibly that you will be refused entry. However, if you have justified reasons for returning frequently (business arrangements, for example), you should have no problems.

Essentially, the ESTA has been designed to reduce complications and facilitate travel for citizens of certain countries. It is a highly efficient and useful measure, and it is understandable that US authorities have to ensure that it is being used correctly. You can request your ESTA online in just a few minutes, and have it authorised and sent to you within 24 hours.



Further note: ESTA visas only apply for entry to the USA by commercial carrier [airlines or cruise ships]. If you enter or reenter the USA by private yacht or private vehicle at a land border, you will need an issued B1/B2 visa to be allowed entry. B1/B2 visas are applied for at the USA embassy or consulate in your country of citizenship, weeks before your planned departure, and are not issued upon arrival to the USA by non-commercial carrier.

Hope you will enjoy your new boat. Safe and Happy travels!

[Wilyum]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Further note: ESTA visas only apply for entry to the USA by commercial carrier [airlines or cruise ships]. If you enter or reenter the USA by private yacht or private vehicle at a land border, you will need an issued B1/B2 visa to be allowed entry. B1/B2 visas are applied for at the USA embassy or consulate in your country of citizenship, weeks before your planned departure, and are not issued upon arrival to the USA by non-commercial carrier.

Hope you will enjoy your new boat. Safe and Happy travels!

You seem to have a good grasp of this subject, specific to Canadians, once our 90 days (180 with extension) are up, post purchase, and you sail to Mexico or the Bahamas, how long until we can return?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Wilyum

You seem to have a good grasp of this subject, specific to Canadians, once our 90 days (180 with extension) are up, post purchase, and you sail to Mexico or the Bahamas, how long until we can return?

Visas
Canadian visitors can usually stay in the United States for 6 months without a visa. You must declare your intended duration of stay upon entry into the United States.

In most circumstances, Canadian citizens don’t require visitor, business, transit or other visas to enter the United States from Canada but there are some exceptions.

Length of stay
If you wish to stay longer than 6 months, you must apply for an extension at the nearest U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) office once you are in the United States and before the expiry of your initial authorized stay. Immigration officers may ask you to demonstrate that you are a temporary visitor in the United States.

The U.S. government strictly enforces immigration regulations. Remaining in the United States beyond your authorized period of stay can result in serious consequences such as detention or deportation.

There is no set period that you must wait to re-enter the United States after the end of your authorized stay. However, if a CBP officer suspects you are spending more time in the United States than in Canada, it will be up to you to prove to the officer that you are a temporary visitor, not a U.S. resident.

Passport
You must provide proof of your Canadian citizenship upon entry to the U.S. There are several documents that can satisfy this requirement.

Travel by air
Canadian citizens travelling by air to the United States must present one of the following documents:

a passport, which must be valid for the duration of their stay
a valid NEXUS card, used at self-serve kiosks at designated airports
This requirement applies to all Canadian citizens, including children, travelling by air to or even just transiting through the United States.

Canadian passports
Nexus
Travel by land or water
As per the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), Canadian citizens aged 16 years and older must present one of the following documents when entering the United States by land or water:

a valid passport
a Trusted Traveler Program card
an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) or enhanced identification card(EIC) from a province or territory where a U.S. approved EDL/EIC program has been implemented
a Secure Certificate of Indian Status

The WHTI-compliant document you choose to use must be valid for the duration of your stay.

Canadian citizens aged 15 years and under entering the United States by land or water require one of the following documents:

a passport
an original or a copy of a birth certificate
an original Canadian citizenship certificate

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/united-states

https://ca.usembassy.gov/visas/do-i-need-a-visa/

[sesmith]

Originally Posted by cooper1991

Sounds like I'm better going elsewhere as most countries don't charge sales tax on used boats where tax was paid as new. 7-8% is a significant cost. As you say, Florida may be very nice. Insurance to get into marinas is almost a global thing now.

Maybe true, but more importantly you way want to go elswhere for tax advice after I read the 4 page war on this tread. Sheesh.

One piece of info I'll add is there are a couple of ways states get their tax money. As mentioned in the thread, Fl is a sales tax state and charges a 1 time fee based on a percentage of the sale. Many of the other coastal states charge personal property tax, a yearly insult, but usually have a low or non-existent sales tax at the time of sale. South Carolina is like that. They charge a maximum of $500 at the time of sale, then a yearly personal property tax based on the boat's value.

You mentioned only being in Fl for 6 mo's to a year. If instead, you chose Ga or SC to keep your boat, you would have a low sales tax to start, and a more reasonable personal property tax for a year or so. It takes a few years for the personal property taxes charged yearly to add up to the total sales taxes you'd likely pay in Fl. You could save a few bucks that way and be perfectly legal (and morally correct) if you did that. The only thing is that you would have to show proof, once you left the state, that you moved and registered the boat somewhere else or they would still want their taxes.

Suggest calling tax offices (and maybe brokers) in areas you're interested in to get info. I've found most tax offices to be very helpful.