Florida Anchor Ban Still Unsigned by governor

[Davy J]

....but I guess you're another who overthinks things/reads with your emotions maybe?

No emotions, but I'm glad you just now discovered the internet........
You seem to have a whole wealth of knowledge that you'd like to bestow upon us........................

[SURV69]

What would even be a "pre" derelict?

A boat with no working motor?

A boat with no working stove?

A boat with no working head?

The requirement of a "home" might be cumbersome to the "pre" derelict determination on a boat, which is BOTH, a boat AND a HOME.

I think Florida is legislating itself into uncharted lands ... but by the same token, maybe Florida will finally give other states(with similar problems), the eventual answer.

Personally, I have seen some abandoned derelicts that look like they have potential for someone to put time and money into them and sail them out of Florida(if need be), but I've also heard these boats are hard to "legally", get and hard to "legally", get rid of.

Is Florida also looking at a way to dissolve owner's title to the boats?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by SURV69

Is Florida also looking at a way to dissolve owner's title to the boats?

This law shows clearly what is wrong with many legislatures, willing to enact a myriad of new laws at the drop of a hat of a contributor or a special interest group. Instead of simply budgeting for enforcement of existing laws and regs. No need to re-design a wheel. Instead of using existing laws about abandoned movable property (cars for example) left on the public ways, they come up with a new set of rules and regs knowing well in advance that those will be as useless or as starved of financing for enforcement as the ones already on the books.

It's funny how Sanders is labeled a socialist while those Florida hacks who voted for this POS communistic, "community desires based" legislation pride themselves to be upstanding conservative capitalists. Yeah, right.

Someone mentioned that the costs of repossessing and disposing a derelict boat are too high. Well in that case the state rather than enacting socialistic NIMBY laws should auction off that salvage contract to the lowest bidder whose primary profit will come from parting those boats out and the state just picking up the land fill hull disposal cost or better yet designate a state owned landfill which would take those hulls gratis thus making the whole procedure profitable enough for the contractors, etc. Not a rocket science and done daily with cars and other abandoned personal property. In this economy there should be enough underemployed haulers and salvagers to at least make a sizable dent in this problem. Of course those salvagers who are too greedy to accept a sure bet of a steady $500-1,000 profit and rather lie in wait for that hapless skipper to rip him off for 10s of thousands of $$ will not agree. But why should their greed be a part of the public policy anyway?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SURV69

What would even be a "pre" derelict?

A boat with no working motor?

A boat with no working stove?

A boat with no working head?

The requirement of a "home" might be cumbersome to the "pre" derelict determination on a boat, which is BOTH, a boat AND a HOME.

I think Florida is legislating itself into uncharted lands ... but by the same token, maybe Florida will finally give other states(with similar problems), the eventual answer.

Personally, I have seen some abandoned derelicts that look like they have potential for someone to put time and money into them and sail them out of Florida(if need be), but I've also heard these boats are hard to "legally", get and hard to "legally", get rid of.

Is Florida also looking at a way to dissolve owner's title to the boats?

Does Florida makes mandatory inspections on all pleasure boats or only target the ones that seem to be in bad shape?

It seems that a pre derelict is a boat that does not pass an inspection. Probably it will have a time period to be re inspected after being repaired.

After that time it will be considered a derelict and could not be used anymore.

That seems not different in what regards countries that have mandatory inspections on pleasure boats.

Edit: No it seems that they don't have mandatory inspections. Here is a clear explanation of how a boat is considered a pre-derelict and a derelict.

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/october/affairs.asp
http://news.wgcu.org/post/how-lee-co...derelict-boats

If the boat become a derelict the state can dispose of it, fine the owner and send him the bill of the disposal.

[a64pilot]

First, I think Sailor Jer makes a very valid point. OK so he put it in all caps which to some is shouting, but he was trying to emphasize his point. I do the same myself as other do, it's when you put the entire post in all caps that it become obnoxious.

Then I think if your in Fl for more than 90 days, you have to register in Florida? So if you have a boat form somewhere else, at the 91 day point I assume Fl does get jurisdiction, plus I doubt they have to have it anyway, I get pulled over speeding in any State, State the vehicle is registered in means nothing.

[a64pilot]

This cut and pasted from the article Polux linked to

Horning says an expensive surprise can await people who have sold their boat but failed to transfer title. "In Florida, both the seller and the buyer must report the sale (to the Dept. of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles) within 30 days," he notes. "If they don't, the former owner could be responsible if the boat becomes derelict."

[cruisersfarm]

What is a pre derelict boat??

Come to Miami. I'll take you on a tour and show you a dozen in a single anchorage. Outboards strapped to the back of sport fishers, large gaping holes in transoms. Boats listing/sinking.

Then we can get out the mask and snorkels and tour the 4-5 sunken wrecks that used to be pre derelict boats a few months ago in the same anchorage.

I can show you dinghies made from cooler Styrofoam with a piece of plywood bolted to the top.

I can show you people who just swim for it.

I can show you people who have 4 boats, all of them pre-derelict.

[Davy J]

I'm not sure how you "process the title out of your name".

Here is a link to the "Bill of Sale/Notice of Sale":

https://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/82050.pdf

Even though it claims you must notify the Tax Collector, it clearly states on the bottom of the form that ownership status will not change until the Buyer has applied for and is issued a Certificate of Title. So unless you force the buyer to meet you at a tax collectors office, I don't think you can "process the title out of your name".

Of course it's all relative, selling a 1.2 million dollar Swan, I think the buyer will make sure the title transfers. Selling a 1978 Catalina 30 with a seized motor for $500.00, maybe not so much.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Davy J

I'm not sure how you "process the title out of your name".

Here is a link to the "Bill of Sale/Notice of Sale":

https://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/82050.pdf

Even though it claims you must notify the Tax Collector, it clearly states on the bottom of the form that ownership status will not change until the Buyer has applied for and is issued a Certificate of Title. So unless you force the buyer to meet you at a tax collectors office, I don't think you can "process the title out of your name".

Of course it's all relative, selling a 1.2 million dollar Swan, I think the buyer will make sure the title transfers. Selling a 1978 Catalina 30 with a seized motor for $500.00, maybe not so much.

Don't know about Florida law, but in Washington ST, when you sign the title over to buyer, the bottom of the title has a perforated section the seller fills out and sends to the State D.O.L. That notify's the State that you are no longer responsible. You have 15 days to mail that in, the buyer has 30 days to transfer title to their name. simple.

[Shanachie]

Actually, the comparison to RVs is appropriate in many cases.

A large number of the sailboats that visit Florida in the winter motor down the ICW from the northeast, similar to RVs on the interstate, with bikes and other stuff piled up on them.

Once they get here, many of them settle in one place for the winter (think Boot Key Harbor) or just motor among a couple of anchorages.

For many of them, there's not much sailing on. Too much headache to clear the decks of junk.

[SURV69]

didn't a famous judge(Supreme Court?), once say he didn't know how to define pornography, but that he would know it when he sees it.

I think, what a derelict boat, is probably pretty obvious. But laws are passed to rather precisely described the situation in which the law is to be applied.

Is a boat "suspected" of being a derelict if it's dirty or if it's sails are torn, or the engine makes a noise, or a port window is broken out?

Who knows ... but I'll tell you this ... Law enforcement will take laws apart to see how to use it and how to abuse it ... legally. Criminals and citizens will do the same thing, and often end up at complete polar opposites of the law's intent.

All Florida wants to do ... I think, is to rid themselves of a bunch of boats that are not usable and are abandoned ... probably 90% of all parties want the same thing ... they want clean water, friendly atmosphere and freedom of travel(including anchoring). Only a small percentage want more and only a small percentage want less. What I would call the advocates on either side becomes the problem ... the rest of us get caught up in the problem.

Let me say, what I "think", I think, I know about derelict boats.

They're inoperative
they're abandoned
they're titled but often no longer registered
owners are nowhere to be found within juristiction(sp)
without title, no one wants to act on the derelict

When the boats haven't been abandoned, but are inoperable, they're often being used as a "home" ... which greatly complicates the issue, cause now we're talking about someone's home.

[SURV69]

uncle stinkybob:

In Ohio, I think the buyers have 30 days to transfer. Input from the seller is not requested. I think that one the title it actually states that a transferred title is only good for 30 days, and either implies or actually states that the transfer is void after 30 days.

That's why when I sell a boat or car, I keep insurance on until I "know", that the transfer has actually taken place.

nothing is done, til the paperwork is done ...

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by SURV69

uncle stinkybob:

In Ohio, I think the buyers have 30 days to transfer. Input from the seller is not requested. I think that one the title it actually states that a transferred title is only good for 30 days, and either implies or actually states that the transfer is void after 30 days.

That's why when I sell a boat or car, I keep insurance on until I "know", that the transfer has actually taken place.

nothing is done, til the paperwork is done ...

That really sucks! So it's up to the buyer? I guess I would be going to the D.O.L. with the buyer and get it done the day of sale, or else the seller would be at the mercy of the buyer, correct?

[SURV69]

So many sales take place on weekends.

First you meet the buyer and agree on a price, then you(the seller), must sign the car over ... in front of a notary public, to attest to the act being of your own free will and that you do intend for this next person to own your car.

In Ohio, the "first", after signing the car over, step is to actually change the title. This must be done at the courthouse ... by the buyer ... closed on weekends. This is where the buyer and seller can sign the title in front of a notary public. instead of looking for a notary public beforehand. You are now the owner ... I am still the registered owner ... parking tickets will be mine, at least until I explain it to a judge.

Now after you've gotten the title change, you(the buyer) may now proceed to the nearest registrar, who might be miles away. When the buyer does this he/she is now the owner and the registered owner ... now, the new owner is fully responsible.

So, unless you want to be a shadow", for a few hours ... forget it ...

[Island Time O25]

Wow, and I thought Mass was a hotbed of bureaucracy.

In MA to de-activate ownership all the seller needs after signing over the title to the buyer is to file a copy of the Bill of Sale with buyer's info on line with the Office of Environmental Police (which strangely enough issues boat titles and registrations rather than the RMV). And that's about it.