For those who are cheering on the City of Miami Beach

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Jammer

We were recently in Miami and had supper at a restaurant overlooking the subject anchorage. I offer these photos for your consideration.

Hi, Jammer,
We used to anchor in the Marine Stadium('95-'2005) in a bad blow. There were never more than 3-4 boats at anchor. What a difference a day makes.
Rognvald

P.S. It was a dolphin playground on the tides and in the morning we saw the competitive rowers sculling across the little bay. R

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by jkishel

Actually, that is not the Miami Beach anchorage in question. It is the Marine Stadium anchorage in Miami.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Kettlewell]

A confession: I don't think I know how to debate people who don't understand the dangers of living amid human excrement.

The point is that it's not the boaters that are causing any pollution problems. It is against the law to discharge. If they outlaw every single boat from anchoring out there it will have zero effect on the water quality. The problem comes from the land.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Wait. You mean they were actually trying to "Feed" hungry people.
Do-gooders are the worst.

Originally Posted by Shanachie

All I will say is, it's disingenuous to play the right-thinking soul when you live many miles from a problem and are not being affected by it.


It's quite another matter when the problem is anchored off your back yard, the waters around your home are being polluted by illegal sewage and local cruising sailors are not welcome in many locations because of unsightly collections of junk boats.


I was a newspaper reporter and editor for many years. A reporter on my staff once covered a story about how downtown was being overrun with homeless people due to a feeding program.


It turned out that many of the do-gooders were members of a church in a wealthy suburb. They set up the feeding program in someone else's neighborhood and created a hell of a problem.


They accused the complainers of being un-Christian, heartless people. But they never explained why they didn't set up the feeding program at their church instead of next to other people's homes.


By the way, the accounts of the Miami Beach boats passing the dye test for illegal discharge of waste is a faulty account of the story.


All the dye tests do is test whether sewage is being directly discharged in the water from the head. If you have a Y valve, as many older boats do, you switch it between the holding tank and direct discharge when the police show up.


There is no pump-out boat, and the people on the 157 boats do not zoom to shore and look for a public toilet every time nature calls. All of that sewage is in the environmentally sensitive waters of Biscayne Bay.


That alone is enough to warrant clearing the anchorage. Untreated sewage can cause cholera, e. coli,. parasitic diseases, hepatitis and a host of other diseases.

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

The point is that it's not the boaters that are causing any pollution problems. It is against the law to discharge. If they outlaw every single boat from anchoring out there it will have zero effect on the water quality. The problem comes from the land.

I am no expert on pollution. But I do know that when I was in St. Thomas, there was weekly testing at beaches, and if any bacteria from discharge was detected, the beach was closed for a week. A single sailboat in a bay discharging was enough for them to detect. So, it is pretty damn hard to believe that 157 sailboats, almost all of which must discharge occasionally, is not a pollution problem or health safety problem.

I would expect, and hope, that any land based discharges of sewage and fecal matter were either very rare, previously treated, or both. Also noting that fertilizer runoff is *very* different that raw human sewage.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

A confession: I don't think I know how to debate people who don't understand the dangers of living amid human excrement.

Well, calling people disingenuous, using the term Do-gooders to demean, or inferring certain people are dumber than you because you're more of a "Poop" expert isn't a solid debating tactic.

IMO, the whole poop discussion is bait. The real issues are Unsafe Boats, ATON Hazards, and places for people to live.
Everyone should work on solving homelessness. Simply evicting them shifts the problem, not solves it. That doesn't seem sustainable to me.

[sailorboy1]

In the end this whole thread is just entertainment. Compared to the current anchor outs there are a LOT more cruisers who would favor a mooring field like the others in the State. If the City addresses the standard boater needs the same as the other State permitted mooring fields this project probably has a 90%+ chance of happening.

[Mike OReilly]

The point is, if boat discharge is a problem, then address that issue. If there is a derelict boat problem, address that issue. There are already existing laws and enforcement mechanisms for these situations. Banning all anchoring boats on the pretext of a possible* sewage problem is a clearly just fig leaf cover for an underlying reason.

As I've written, I don't think anyone should be able to permanently occupy a public space. This applies to individual boats, but it also applies to the privatizing of a public anchorage through the use of fee-based moorings. It might come down to the lesser of two evils, but both contravene the same principle, and seem equally offensive to me.

I think time limits for anchoring in one place, similar to what we see regarding camping on public lands, is reasonable. But if people are living on their boats due to a lack of other/better options, then chasing them out (because 'the right people' don't like how they look) only moves the problem somewhere else.

These are still people we're talking about. Everyone has to live somewhere. If these people are chosing the best option available to them, then everyone needs to work together to find better ones.

* As we've read here, this is not certain.

[Montanan]

BoatUS applauds recent Florida ordinance for anchoring rights
February 28, 2023

https://boatingindustry.com/news/202...horing-rights/

"Approved last November, Broward County’s ordinance tackles the issue directly, allowing for up to 45-days of anchoring for any vessel within any six-month period. It also adds an exemption for imminent or existing hazardous weather – increasing boater safety by not requiring crews to haul anchor and head out into potentially unsafe weather conditions.

“We believe 45 days is a reasonable time frame for a vessel to remain in a particular area and will allow all active, responsible cruising and recreational boaters to use, anchor, rest, repair, visit, re-provision, and enjoy these bodies of water,” said BoatUS Government Affairs manager David Kennedy.


The ordinance revolves around two small manmade lakes in Hollywood, Florida, North and South lakes, each connected to the Intracoastal Waterway. Locals have long shared the waters – North Lake was designated an idle-only area, drawing sailors and paddlers, while South Lake was used for powered-vessel water activities. For years, responsible long-distance cruisers were welcome in both anchorages.

A dramatic increase in abandoned derelict vessels (ADVs), at-risk or improperly long-term anchored boats over the past few years have changed that equation, however, crowding out all other activities with some vessel owners anchoring for months and even years. "

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Montanan

BoatUS applauds recent Florida ordinance for anchoring rights
February 28, 2023

https://boatingindustry.com/news/202...horing-rights/

The ordinance:
CODE OF BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
Chapter 21 - MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES AND PROVISIONS
Article XII: ANCHORING LIMITATION AREAS ➥ https://library.municode.com/fl/brow...R_ARTXIIANLIAR