Getting started the right way?

[Don C L]

Easy, I wish I had known more about Volvo MD7A engines before I encouraged a friend to buy a boat with one. We sort of got the bugs worked out but... Get to know diesels and how to take care of them!

[krisb007]

I am on the 5 year plan before I live aboard. Two teenagers to graduate in the next 3 years and another 2 years they can live with me before I boot them out of the house. So I am spending my time reading a lot and taking lessons as well as volunteering to crew as often as I can hitch a ride.

A few of the books I would recommend as starters (if I am allowed to share titles)

The Essentials of Living Aboard a Boat Publisher: Paradise Cay Publications

Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats: A Step-by-Step Guide for Buyers and Owners

This Old Boat

The Complete Sailing Manual

Good reads and help to give you an idea of what's to come.

I am also planning to use Air BNB or Beds on Board and spend a few different weeks on some boats at the couple of marinas I have my eye on to get a good feel for what it's really like to give it all up and go small.

Good luck and have fun.

[Tayana42]

Hieuhuule, first, thank you for your service. Second, think again about buying a used small trailerable or car-top-able boat. After the initial depreciation they hold value pretty well. In all likelihood you could buy a used one and use it for a year or two and then sell it for near what you paid. A Lazer, Sunfish, Lido 14, Capri 14, O'Day Daysailer or anything like that will allow you to gain heaps of sailing experience as a start to your learning curve.

[johnny AoB]

Check out Adventures on Boats - Home it has over 1000 links culled and categorized to help you get started on your cruising adventure.

[Sea Dreaming]

You have heard some good advice. Just my two bits. Of course crew if you can. But take lessons. You don't have to take lessons but nothing boosts your confidence like getting fed back from an expert encouraging you through gaff and offing you a "good job" when earned. You will learn how to sail when crewing, but most folk arent there to teach you step by step. The experience can be piecemeal. Some folk are great, some are not. If you take a basic course first you will feel more confident and know where the bits you pick up crewing fit in the larger scheme.
Sailing for Dummies is actually a good starter book. It is not comprehensive but you won't feel it's a waste of money if you buy it. Better yet, buy both books used through Amazon.

As for living aboard any boat, small is fine. 30 feet better than 24. But spend time reading about boats, search yacht world and research boats that intrest you. Some knowledge will go a long way to buying the right boat for you. Keep in mind that what you choose to live on now may not work for long term cruising, especially if you intend to live on a lake in Tennesse.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Hieuhuule

I've got absolutely no experience with boats or the water at all. But I am an avid arm chair adventurer who wants to take this dream and make it a reality. I'm working my butt off and I expect within the next three years to have enough saved up to comfortably cruise and not worry too much about money. I don't have a boat (yet) but I plan on getting one by then.

What can I do during those three years to prepare for a cruising lifestyle and be a competent sailor? I've read post after post about people setting off on a whim to follow their dreams and met a pretty tragic end. I don't want to be "that guy." What's the right way to get started?

***If this question has been answered before, sorry for repeating it and could you please provide a link to the thread?***

I think you may want to spend as much time on boats and on the water as you can. Boating is a practical pastime, hands-on experience.

Go sailing with friends, go fishing with local buddies, surf, swim, row and immerse yourself in all things nautical.

Read, maybe get some courses (VHF, safety on the water, etc.). Over time you will build your own list of 'what next' and then just cover these specific areas one by one.

But my advice is to go for it. It is the time on the water that counts most.

If you want to sail in a sailing boat, get a small dinghy and start sailing. Big boats are like the small ones, just bigger.

b.

[JPA Cate]

One word of caution here, before you buy a boat to live aboard, investigate the laws pertaining to the area where you want to do it. Some marinas have length requirements for liveaboard boats, most charge liveaboard fees.

Your purchase price is just the beginning, there will be taxes, registration and berthing fees, as well as boat maintenance to allow for, and tool purchases. It is one reason to start small and trailerable, you lose the berthing fees, and most tools you'd take along to the next boat.

Frankly, I do not know if you will be able to afford both tuition and learning equipment costs at college at the same time as trying to buy and live on a boat. Plus, what happens if you get shipped out? Let's see some more persevering planning here to prevent F-ups.

Ann

Edit: I, too, am of the school of learning about sailing by sailing on other people's boats. Racing is, imho, a good way to learn a lot. Sailing with different skippers teaches different skills, and you'll also learn about planning ahead and keeping calm--or not. I am more of a learn-by-doing type than learning from reading, though, and if you learn well from reading, do lots of it. To me, classes are optional, unless your State has license requirements that require certificates of passing from some body or other.

[a64pilot]

I'm going out on a limb and going to do some guessing here.
If he is Army, most likely Ft Campbell, enlisted is my guess, first enlistment, maybe Spec 4?
College most likely means after his enlistment is up and using whatever there is available for Military right now, some form of GI bill maybe.
Although he could go active duty, it is done, you owe the Army like two for one for time in school.
I had a very good friend who joined with only a High School diploma and last I heard he is a Medical Dr., all done on active duty. Of course he owes so many years likely he will have 20 in before he has it all paid back.

[TrentePieds]

OP: I don't recall that you've even mentioned a budget expressed in dollars. Think on this:

S'posing you have 30 grand in cash, in your back pocket - no loans, no fancy financing, just plain old cash. Then find a thirty footer you can buy for $10K. Easy if you will accept a wobbly engine :-)! "Transaction costs" will likely consume $5K. Yank out the forty-year old engine and have a brand new one put in. A 30 foot, five ton boat will require a 20HP diesel, better still a 25. That will set you back another $15K, so there's your budget exhausted.

But the boat, having a new engine, will be completely reliable and give you no nasty, expensive surprises. The other "systems" you can repair as and when necessary, and you can do it ALL yourself. Not tomorrow, certainly, but at a leisurely pace as you live aboard, and what you need to know you can learn from books. Specific questions the books don't deal with adequately, this forum will - if you give the people here half a chance. We have a lovely lady here who is an expert on marine toilets. Coupla chaps offer wonderful advice on boats' wiring.

But don't forget that to moor the boat will cost you slip-rent that is basically equivalent to the rent of a small apartment. So now you have TWO "apartments" to pay for, for it is unlikely that you will find moorage within, say, cycling-distance of a university. So, unless you are actively cruising, boat ownership doesn't eliminate the need for car ownership!

In fact, TrentePieds keeps her very own van, so as to have a place to store the clobber she can't accommodate in her lockers!

Since you are military, you already have a good deal of the stuff I talked about in my last response under you belt.

Go for it - but go sensibly :-)!

TrentepIeds

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Read and boat.

For reading, do a simple search on BOOKS and there are tons of posts about recommended reads. Many include just your situation.

Welcome and good luck.

I will second this recommendation. About 40 years ago I also had caught the sailing bug but had zero boating experience. A combination of crewing on a couple of deliveries and reading everything I could find about boats, boating, boat repair, boat maintenance, navigation, sailing, cruising, even novels and adventure stories about boats. Then did a bit more saling before taking off for a two year cruise.

[Hieuhuule]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I'm going out on a limb and going to do some guessing here.
If he is Army, most likely Ft Campbell, enlisted is my guess, first enlistment, maybe Spec 4?
College most likely means after his enlistment is up and using whatever there is available for Military right now, some form of GI bill maybe.
Although he could go active duty, it is done, you owe the Army like two for one for time in school.
I had a very good friend who joined with only a High School diploma and last I heard he is a Medical Dr., all done on active duty. Of course he owes so many years likely he will have 20 in before he has it all paid back.

Good guess, currently stationed at Campbell, enlisted 6 years and some change, Sergeant E-5 type, definitely using the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for all my schooling. Not to get too off topic, but as long as you serve for at least 90 consecutive days and not get kicked out, you get all the education benefits. My apologies, Ann. I should've been more specific, but I honestly forgot that people pay tuition for college :P

@Trentipieds: $30k is beyond what I was considering. More like $10k MAX. I read this article and the author bought a ship for $6,500 and sailed to from the San Francisco Bay to Hawaii.

I hadn't considered the extra fees (taxes, registration and berthing). I'll need to plan better for when I eventually get my own boat (years down the line). The idea of living aboard was to get rid of the cost of an apartment.

Are ASA courses worth it financially? I had considered it, but disregarded the idea after looking at the cost.

[dwedeking2]

My path:

1) Read and thought about it for about 6 years.
2) Went to La Paz to do a 1 week course on sailing when I lived in Mexico. This really helped. I do very well reading and learning things but the hands on work really made it sink in and showed that it was something I could do and something I enjoyed.
3) For the next year, while living in Ensenada, MX, I would go up to San Diego once a month and take friends out on a rented sailboat (from 28' to 42'). This allowed me to experience different layouts and designs to see what things were important to me before purchasing.
4) Moved to Florida and found a project boat in my budget which I am in the process of turning into a home. The boat design and construction is solid, but there are a lot of things I'm changing to make it what I want both for sailing and living.

The savings of dock fees vs rent in a nice one bedroom apartment here means the purchase price will be recouped in 20 months. But there are easier ways to save on rent vs remodeling an old boat. On the plus side I'm a very ocean oriented person (I get grumpy living inland) so living on a boat is paradise for me.

[Teknishn]

Hieuhuule, You have received some incredibly excellent sage advice here. And I also thank you for your service (retired USN here). FWIW, a while back I located and downloaded an earlier free version of "Sailing for Dummies". As previously mentioned, not fully comprehensive but a pretty good place to start. I Googled it and kept hitting the sites that WEREN'T selling it.

I've been on boats since I was knee-high to a crawdad (from Louisiana originally) but always on someone elses boat. Shrimp boats, ski boats, pontoons, houseboats, and pirogues (I did try to put a sail on a pirogue once...I don't recommend it in alligator/water moccasin invested waters).

First boat I owned was a clinker-built 24-foot sea skiff sitting on the bottom in Norfolk, Virginia. Cost about $500 after taxes, title, and registration. Spent two years rebuilding the boat between deployments. Already being a marine electrician in the Navy helped, as well as being somewhat of a motorhead already. Sold the boat for a bit more than I had invested (including slip fees at a private dock). Learned a lot about woodworking, finishing, epoxies, adhesives, fasteners, paint systems, etc.) Next boat was a 40-foot power cruiser project boat built in 1950. Was more than my Navy pay could cover so I sold it at a loss, but also gained valuable knowledge from the experience.

Then got the sailing bug. Bought only one book, The Handbook of Sailing (I think), and read it so many times that I was wearing out the waterproof cover.

Then I jumped and bought an O'Day 21 for $1200 with a 9-hp outboard and tired sails. Spent most of a year while on shore duty sailing that boat. Great fun, "Oh Sh%t" moments, beautiful sunsets and night sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. Only maintenance costs were the slip fees at the same private dock ($100/month), bottom paint, and upgrading the interior a bit. Then decided I want to go bigger and found a Catalina 27 for sale for $6K with a rebuilt Johnson outboard and a really rough interior. Sold the O'Day for $2000 and bought the Catalina. Probably put another $2K into it (interior and electrical mostly) over the next year. Slip fees jumped from $100/month to $250 (No more private dock). Sold that boat for $6K two years later after retiring and taking a contract to teach the Egyptian Navy in Alexandria, Egypt (US AID program).

Here it is 19-years later and I am still in Egypt. I plan to repatriate next year (my body couldn't take a Virginia winter at the moment...blood's too thin after nearly 2-decades of the heat here in the sandbox, so will wait for the Spring thaw). I have recently purchased my boat off of the internet (no broker), a 27-footer, that I plan to live aboard upon returning as I don't know where I want to live, no living relatives, and have no particular place I have to be, just know it's time to come home and learn about my own country again. Anyway, my 27-footer cost me about $6k (same price as the Catalina 27 I purchased in 1995, only in better condition) including a full survey (Dry and In-water) and is basically ready to sail as a day-sailer. However, upgrades/modifications will be needed to be done to make it a proper liveaboard, so I am budgeting another $5K for this, and that may be a bit of overkill for bare basics...but boats can, and will, surprise you. Slip fees? I plan on swinging on the hook for most of any given month but am planning one week a month (7-days, but not all at once) of my monthly budget for being in a marina (pump outs, grocery runs, dinner, chasing women and telling them I live on a "yacht" , etc.)

Don't rush out and buy a boat until you have been on a many many many different boats. This is where sailing with the club, friends, hanging out at the marina, etc. will come in very handy when you start looking for YOUR boat. You will have a better idea of what you need, want, and require (or not).

Now me, being the romantic that I am, I still believe that a boat calls to you. A boat will let you know if she is the right one for you....but that's just me.

Go sailing, learn to sail, make mistakes, get ribbed on a bit, learn from it, fall overboard a time or two, read, take lessons....Just go do it and learn as much as you can, be it by reading, being on the water, or taking some time to help the mechanics over in the motorpool set valves on some of their diesel engines. (The military is a great place to get cross-training in a lot of different disciplines....It's a great tool that you have at your disposal...Use it!).

Best of Luck!
Fleming

[Delafontaine]

Join a sailing club, or a sailing association ! Plenty to learn, and if you get involved with the club's boats, "start boat" for races, safety boats, helping with fitting out, you will discover lots and lots of good friends, and gain invaluable experience.


Good sailing, Guy <<Former insurance broker for Lloyd's of London.>>

[TrentePieds]

Hieu:

That's a lovely article! Lots of good stuff in it. Please read it again with particular attention to the comments about refit and about having a diesel engine. You will see that the figures I gave you constitute a CONSERVATIVE estimate of the cost of acquisition and refit of a boat that can serve you well. I did stress in my original comments that to do SAFELY what you want to do, those will be the costs.

Please don't delude yourself about costs just because Josh Slocum was able to pick up the rotting bones of an oyster smack lying in a salt-marsh, fit 'er out and sail 'er around the world. You are prolly no more Josh Slocum that I am ;-)!

Whether you buy for 6.5K or 10K is much of a muchness. The difference of 3.5k is a bagatelle in a boat-keeper's budget. So lay a realistic budget, not just for the boat, but for ALL your life, as it will look after you become "one of us". Thinking and planning costs nothing. "Homework" costs nothing. But once you plunk down the hard cash, that cash is gone - forever!

You can go to sea in a boat you've bought for 6.5K or 10K. But, IMO, you just can't do it safely. Remember also that a boat without an engine, or with a failed engine, is a major liability. You either put in the 15 grand an engine costs so you can resell the boat for 6.5, or you need to dispose of the hulk. The only way to dispose of a "frozen snot" hulk is to cut it up and take scraps to the landfill. There goes another 5K!

In short, therefore, if you wish to play with "low end" boats, you MUST for your own financial protection have enuff slack cash to re-engine it. To exit gracefully from ownership of a good engine with a weary hull attached is easier than to exit from the ownership of a good hull with a duff engine in it!

Please accept that I'm offering these comments not to rain on your parade, but rather in the hope that something I've said may spare you having to learn some hard lessons the hard way :-)

TP