Graduating college, want to liveaboard in Boston

[vjm]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Will.

“The Art of Living Aboard a Boat” ~ by Lisa & Al Fittipaldi

Oops, I conflated two books in my mind. The book I was referring to was "The Essentials of Living Aboard a Boat" by Mark Nichols.

I was not a fan of the Fittipaldi's book, but I think I am just not their target audience.

The Nichols book is a good starting place for all the considerations of living aboard, and he seems like a great resource regarding Boston specifically.

[c3po]

Hi Will,

Have you looked into yacht clubs and marinas?

Boston area can get expensive very quickly.

Im at a YC in Quincy to keep costs down. But Im also not a live aboard.

[Russ]

Constitution Marina. Many winter liveaboards.

[wsbarnard]

Looks like I've got two new books to read!

I based my budget on the Constitution marina. For an estimate I assumed a 40' boat living full time there (with all extra fees included) and it came out to a little over $12k a year. I'm equating a slip to an apartment rent so by that measure its not bad compared to a decent apartment in Boston (my sister by comparison is currently paying $1100 a month). I am not including the boat costs in this equation, as the boat is something I will own at the end whereas the slip/apartment are things I'm renting.

I was thinking about wintering in Constitution marina and summering in Winthrop or Nahant or Quincy to save money since CM is so expensive in the summer. I dont know of any places other than constitution and Nahant that offer winter liveaboards, are there any?

[reed1v]

I will assume you are not the professional type and have little ambition to be part of the corporate nor university worlds that inhabit Boston. Otherwise, living on a boat means you will smell, and that will doom any career advancement. We have actually fired some folks for smelling bad.

Boats reek of diesel fumes, mildew, mold, dry rot, and the like. The lack of good air circulation in the winter also contributes. Worse, the stench gets into your skin and becomes part of your body odor.

So as long as your a laborer or a low level worker, then go for it. Realize that a career type person can usually bank on making 100k after several years working their way up in Boston. Its a generous city for young professionals. Its very rough on the working classes.

[wsbarnard]

I do have a professional career (I am a robotics major as stated). I also know how to operate a shower. I've lived in boston my whole life, I understand the professional environment here.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by vjm

I would suggest going and talking to the marinas you are considering and seeing what services exist in winter. Some close the bathrooms, some provide bubblers, some have long waits for a liveaboard slip.

Condensation will be a huge issue (along with the mold that it brings) so start looking at systems now. Hydronic heat is probably your best bet.

I think that hydronic heat is only his second or even third best option, especially when dealing with condensation is a concern. First, it doesn't remove moisture from the air as well as a forced hot air system that draws drier air into the boat from the outside, displacing moisture laden air from inside. Hydronic systems just heat existing moist air inside the boat. Second, hydronic systems are both more expensive to buy and complicated to install than a forced hot air system is and he will be on a tight budget. Third, if he plans to be at a marina dock during cold weather months, he will likely have access to an AC electric plug in (or just a heavy duty extension cord if his boat isn't wired for AC) so he can buy a couple of small electric heaters for less than $100 and use those. Hydronic heat has the advantage of also being able to heat hot water for washing dishes, etc, without running his engine, but so does an electric plug in. Not sure it's worth the expense and trouble of installing a hydronic system to have hot water without running engine while anchoring, especially for a beginner on a tight budget on a boat that likely won't be his last.

Also, if he's at a dock in Boston he will probably want to winterize his engine so will need to carry the fuel in jugs needed to run either a forced air or hydronic system. I think the ideal situation is to have a forced air system installed but also have a few small electric heaters for everyday use so you only have to use your onboard system on the coldest days. Also, if living in close proximity to other liveaboards, they won't enjoy smelling the fumes from either your hydronic or forced air system wafting into their boat if you are running it all the time.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by wsbarnard

I do have a professional career (I am a robotics major as stated). I also know how to operate a shower. I've lived in boston my whole life, I understand the professional environment here.

Oh then your an MIT graduate, the only place i know of that has a robots and AI program. Then you can be as stinky as you want. We have had some research done at the AI group recently. Great place for the Ph.D.

[redhead]

A small diesel heater will solve the condensation problems and make the boat toasty in winter. My 2c.

By the way - welcome and good luck!

[wsbarnard]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think that hydronic heat is only his second or even third best option, especially when dealing with condensation is a concern. First, it doesn't remove moisture from the air as well as a forced hot air system that draws drier air into the boat from the outside, displacing moisture laden air from inside. Hydronic systems just heat existing moist air inside the boat. Second, hydronic systems are both more expensive to buy and complicated to install than a forced hot air system is and he will be on a tight budget. Third, if he plans to be at a marina dock during cold weather months, he will likely have access to an AC electric plug in (or just a heavy duty extension cord if his boat isn't wired for AC) so he can buy a couple of small electric heaters for less than $100 and use those. Hydronic heat has the advantage of also being able to heat hot water for washing dishes, etc, without running his engine, but so does an electric plug in. Not sure it's worth the expense and trouble of installing a hydronic system to have hot water without running engine while anchoring, especially for a beginner on a tight budget on a boat that likely won't be his last.

Also, if he's at a dock in Boston he will probably want to winterize his engine so will need to carry the fuel in jugs needed to run either a forced air or hydronic system. I think the ideal situation is to have a forced air system installed but also have a few small electric heaters for everyday use so you only have to use your onboard system on the coldest days. Also, if living in close proximity to other liveaboards, they won't enjoy smelling the fumes from either your hydronic or forced air system wafting into their boat if you are running it all the time.

Thanks for the advice about heaters, I certainly wouldn't want to annoy my neighbors, I wasn't sure if electric would do, but sounds like a combination would be good for the really cold days.

[FollowingCs]

One thing to consider, you can always advertise to 'house sit' or 'apartment sit' for those well off enough or smart enough to get out of the city for the winter. There are opportunities for young professionals who can be trusted. Helps to know these folks by referral obviously, but opportunities are there to live 'free' in Jan/Feb with some minor responsibilities.

~ Following Cs ~

[hellosailor]

ws-
I think the reference to "stink" was not about showering, but rather because a lot of boats get a funky mildew odor on them, and if you and all your clothing live there, it can be hard to get rid of. Some folks notice it, others don't.
Looking for a racer/cruiser can mean some hard compromises. A racer is not designed for carrying capacity, but a cruiser must be. The cruiser needs to hold a fast thousand pounds in water and fuel, compared to the racer, in addition to "all your stuff". And probably will have room forward for one or two large anchors and chain that the racer won't. And a racer often has a "docking" engine, which may be lkess than 10hp on a 40' boat, mainly used to come into the docks after racing. A cruiser might have a 30-50hp engine in that same size. A racer, running backstays and a rig that is set up for many hands. A cruiser? Rigged very differently. Yes, there are 'express' cruisers versus slow boats, but once you start looking at anything tagged "race" it is less likely to have what you need for cruising.
Which is why there are PHRF handicaps and races for cruising boats.
Remember that in an older boat, you will also need to pay for new standing rigging, and a rigger unless you do that work. And the odds are a boat in that size and price range will come with nice bed linens, but they won't really be useful sails. If you like to move smartly under sail, you may want to spend another fast six or ten grand just on the main and genoa. And the marina probably will require you to have liability insurance. On a boat older than 30 years, larger than 30', with zero previous ownership experience, insurance will cost you, and it may also be hard to find.
All things to figure in from the beginning, so they don't trip you up along the way.

[jwing]

Topic hijack: How in the world does a college graduate have $30K to buy a boat? When I graduated, my account was closer to -30K and I couldn't afford to go out to lunch with the guys at my first job until after I finally got my first paycheck!

[hellosailor]

Easy. He could just be a small time drug dealer, working his way through school. Or be earning money in any variety of mundane ways. Or have some inheritance. Or, with a robotics and AI background, be real good at hacking ATMs.(G)

[Sailing55]

Originally Posted by wsbarnard

I do have a professional career (I am a robotics major as stated). I also know how to operate a shower. I've lived in boston my whole life, I understand the professional environment here.

Don't get your feathers ruffled...you stated that you have not yet graduated, therefore you do not have a professional career; showers have little to do with the odor of mildew, diesel, cooking smells, etc. that permeate the clothing of boat people. The challenges of living on a boat in a horrible winter climate such as Boston area, and attempting to work in a professional environment are extremely challenging at best. At worst...well, let's try and be positive.

Just be aware of what will be involved...and living in such a small space with another guy and working will compound the challenges. No one is trying to be negative here, just passing on a little hard won experience.