Greece Turkey - Ball Park Costs Of Living Aboard

[barry burton]

thanks katiusha. marmaris on list.
Are these facts-
1 one year contract with a marina is needed for residence visa-
or-
2. if you own a property in turkey you can also apply for a residence visa.

barry b

[Katiusha]

Originally Posted by barry burton

thanks katiusha. marmaris on list.
Are these facts-
1 one year contract with a marina is needed for residence visa-
or-
2. if you own a property in turkey you can also apply for a residence visa.

barry b

Yes to both. Some notes:

1. Some marinas might quietly give you proper documentation for a year if you get a 6-month contract with them. But, once again, you gotta make friends (Meliha in Yat Marin office is wonderful) and talk.

2. Even if you own the property through a company, you can still get the residence. But if you're thinking of buying in Turkey, make sure you know all the bureaucracy first. Very common scams include not providing the buyer with the tapu (ownership paper) or the broker not forwarding [part of] the money to the seller, resulting in lack of most property papers. And Turkish laws do not protect the scammed, so the only way to get out of the mess is "to know people" and talk, talk, talk. [Our good friend got into a sticky situation like this]

[barry burton]

Thanks Katiusha

As always talk with people, there are rules and there is always the other way. I'm with you on that.

Iv'e already got property in Turkey, had it for 4-5 years now, so residency visa seems okay.
I'm just waiting for some money as \i said before somewhere and off to see asbout a boat.

Ta for all advice.
Barry

[Katiusha]

Good luck and fair winds!

[yeloya]

Hi Barry,

You had too many questions, thanks to Katiusha who responded most of them..Ireply the ones that remained unanswered:
-Blue card scheme has been postponed until 2015. I doubt it very much that will be enforced even after that date.-
-Sailing to Istanbul is not a great idea for many reasons; there is no proper anchorage around the city. The marinas are awfully expensive and very hard to get the berth. Sailing to Istanbul is called in Turkey "uphill sailing". You will always have the wind on yr nose and strong currents. I did it twice and I can tell you that it's not a pleasure. Yes Dardanel has a strong current when you are "uphill" but not 7 or 8 knots. The max I have seen was 3-4 kts. If you are not very experienced sailor don't ever attempt to do the Dardanel in the dark. I had to do it once and it's a nightmare..
Otherwise, of course Istanbul is definately worth a visit but with bus or plane
Cheers
Yeloya

[barry burton]

Thanks Yeloya.

Good information. I got the impression that going to Istanbul was "uphill" as
you say. As with all things in life there is much information so the best any one can do is collect enough and find out for then selves.

I wanted to go from Istanbul to Side and beyond. (I have an apartment in Side).
I have yet to arrange a crew for this.
From what you say and others, the only way to sail "downhill," is to buy the boat somewhere around the Sea of Marmara coastline.What chances of this?

Failing this i will visit Istanbul by bus or plane or train. Not only do i want to see the tourist sites of Istanbul, mosques , bazaar and the catacombs under the city but i would like to visit the areas that Orhan Pamuk talks about in his autobiography "Memories of Istanbul" To try to SEE authentic Istanbul.

Blue card information well done Yeloya ta!

[yeloya]

Barry,

Of course you can also get a second hand boat in Marmara area; the problem is that Istanbul is a very big and somewhat chaotic city.. To drive from Ataköy marina in the european site to the other one in the asiatic site Kalamış can easily take half a day !! If you can get a reliable broker, that would make the things much easier.
Sailing from Istanbul down to south is much more pleasant experience, no problem at all. Avoid Dardanel in the dark though.. The city lights on both shores which are very confusing, very heavy traffic and a really big ships all around + shollow sand banks in some places..Bozcaada (the small island at the exit of Dardanel), Ayvalık, Çeşme, Alaçatı, Kusadasi, Bodrum, Knidos, Marmaris should be the resting points. They are all nice places and all have provisioning+fuel+marina facilities with the exception of Knidos.
Cheers
Yeloya

[svBeBe]

Does anyone have personal experience of wintering in the water at Fethiye? The few comments I have heard about it being 'too lively' in Fethiye during the winter have come from people who have never been there during winter months. Any personal experience? Thanks in advance.

Judy

[Katiusha]

We heard the opposite: that it's more dead in Fethiye in winter than in Marmaris. Having stopped there a few times throughout the winter it did look slightly forlorn, but not as much as Matri marina.

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by Katiusha

We heard the opposite: that it's more dead in Fethiye in winter than in Marmaris. Having stopped there a few times throughout the winter it did look slightly forlorn, but not as much as Matri marina.

By 'lively' I think the people commenting meant that the seas are too rough and/or winds too high making living at dock uncomfortable. I don't think they meant the local nightlife. FWIW, Marti Marina has been highly recommended as being very safe; but that isolation would drive me bonkers.

Just wondering if Fethiye really is any worse weather-wise than Marmaris.

Judy

[Katiusha]

We were at the anchorage outside Fethyie marina during one winter storm [southerlies] and we felt it was better protected than Marmaris due to land features: in Marmaris Bay the land by Yat Marin is flat enough to let southerlies through, Fethyie is protected. You get some swell with northerlies, but not bad at all.

This past winter has been really bad for winds over the entire coast of Turkey, so if those people tried to compare winds in Fethyie this past winter to winds elsewhere the winter before, it might not be a fair comparison.

P.S. I was talking about cruisers' community being more "lively" in Marmaris, not nightlife

[XgoDoT]

very competent answers from Katiusha and Yeloya, but I would like to add 2 things.

1-Please do not take it too lightly crossing between Greek and Turkish Waters without Checking In and Out. It is true, many cruisers do so, and get away with it some time. But there are lots of controls and if you get caought doing so, you can not sweet-talk yourself out of it as Katiusha suggests. Specially if something goes wrong, i.e. accident or medical need, you will find yourself in big trouble.

2-My last information (just spoke to our Charterbase in Marmaris) regarding Bluecard is that its still on but mostly charter yachts and Gulets are controlled. As Katiusha stated, only the cost of Mugla (Bodrum through Fethiye) is the area where you will need it at some point. (together with the holding tank).

All in all you will surely enjoy one of the best sailing grounds in Med over there

cheers,
Xgodot

[svBeBe]

Regarding going back and forth between Greek and Turkish waters without proper clearances.....do so at significant monetary risk. I know people do this (friends did last summer) but is it really worth the risk? An agent in Marmaris warned us about the costs involved if you get caught on either side without proper clearance. Think they don't check? Think again. A couple of weeks ago we were anchored in Cineviz Limani, a place rarely visited by cruising boats because it is well east. Just at dusk a Turkish Coast Guard speedboat arrived in the anchorage. It went to the stern of each boat anchored and stayed at each for several minutes. The men visible in the cabin were entering something (boat names?) into a computer. Think they were verifying that each boat was cleared in? That is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Point is that even if you do not go into a marina or a popular anchorage, you still can get caught. Without proper clearance, that can be a very costly and time-consuming little hop into the wrong place.

Judy

[Yofy]

New update on Turkish visa regulations and resident permits for cruisiers:
Noonsite: Turkey: Cruising for longer than 90 days now greatly simplified

Robyn

[barry burton]

THANKS ROBYN

Information keeps trickling in. Your info re residence visa via yacht transit was welcome news, i personally think countries should have as priority to make things simple to attract much needed money. It's what is mis named "common" sense.

I want to spend some time cruising the Turkish coast. I'm waiting for cash to materialise then i begin boat search, this could happen withing a month or another year.

The rules regarding chartering seem stiff in turkey, my intention was to ask in advance for a small donation [£25 per week) from crew members, sharing all other costs whilst on board. To my mind this is not "chartering" and how would anyone know anyway?

By the way Robyn are you a twosome on Yofy and if you dont mind the nosiness, what budget are you on?