Heating our sailboat this winter in VA - HELP!

[DeepFrz]

Willem, why not just answer their questions here so we can all benefit from your experience?

[MarkSF]

My thoughts exactly.

[cj88]

Originally Posted by SUNCAT365

The best buy I ever made was an electric mattress pad, rather than an electric blanket. Heat rises. With an electric blanket you still have a cold mattress over a cold hull. With an electric mattress pad below you and a good comforter above you, you are in a warm comfy womb.

Heat doesn't rise, it distributes itself in any direction until an equilibrium is reached. It is hot air or more accurately, less dense air that rises.

[starminx]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Willem, why not just answer their questions here so we can all benefit from your experience?

Hello, Please accept my appologie. I am new here and with no forum expereience.
I would like to help and advise sailors, boaters, interested to install a diesel heater, to obtain a satisfactorily working heater.
Since I have been trying to improve through observation a Sigmar and a Refleks heater while living onboard, I found myself having developed a new diesel heater after 5 years.

If interested go to www.norskblueflamme.com


In order to have a correct and safe working heater the installation must comply to the following criteria:

1. my opinion it is essential to have a closed system, take the combustion air from outside, next to the chimney that is approx.30 cm higher. This way the barometric pressure is about equal in both ducts eliminating backdraft.
   The location of the ducts on the deck is as important. I have seen installed heaters in convenient location but hell to operate and very very dangerous. Wind reflection is not to be underestimated.
2. The fuel must not flow into the burner bottom but should evaporate as soon as it enters the burner.
3. A balanced mixture of vaporized diesel and oxygen is essential. A good burner is a delicate piece of engineering. A full combustion means no soot, no to minimum cleaning, no soot on deck and last but not least, a minimum consumption.
4. For me a safe installation includes two safety fuel shut-off valves. One in case the burner temperature is to low and one for an excessive-heat condition.

These are I believe the most essential notes I can make, Hopefully these notes will be helpfull to the ones struggling with heaters or want to install one.
It is difficult near impossible to give full advise this way, there every boat layout , expectations, and physical possibilities are different.
Anyone with specific questions, possibly including layout sketches or drawings, is welcome for advice.



Willem

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by sailor1924

The one I have fits on a 4" diameter stove pipe. I have an imperfect memory but think I bought it from Woodland Supply or something like that. Keep looking I'm sure no adapter was needed. I found the link.

https://www.woodlanddirect.com/Vacu-...el-Chimney-Cap

Sorry I could only find a blurry picture of the cap above deck.

CORRECTION: The one I have fits a 3" diameter pipe.

[starminx]

Hi,
Thanks for the link.
Interesting design, should work.
Suggest to foresee a second one for the air intake, see that the exit and intake mouths are 30 to 40 cm appart in height.

Consider to position the two vertical flue pipes not further than 30cm apart in the horizontal plane and preferably at a 45 degre angle forward of the mast. Wind reflection !

[sailor1924]

Originally Posted by starminx

Hi,
Thanks for the link.
Interesting design, should work.
Suggest to foresee a second one for the air intake, see that the exit and intake mouths are 30 to 40 cm appart in height.

Consider to position the two vertical flue pipes not further than 30cm apart in the horizontal plane and preferably at a 45 degre angle forward of the mast. Wind reflection !

I'm unsure if two Vacustacs would be more effective. I have not installed the sealed intake that I was planning since installing the Vacustac and have experienced no blowback or flame outs and explosive re-ignitions. My installation is about 1 meter aft of the mainmast and is vertical. I leave a dorade vent open when running the heater and plan to install the intake this year but I don't think I can have them as close together as 30 cm horizontally maybe 40 cm will work?

Take a look at the attached video which I stumbled upon when looking for a solution to the heater getting blown out in high (30-35 kn) winds coming in beam on. This is what sold me on trying out the Vacustac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdXC0AyAMIs

[starminx]

Impressive demonstration I must say.
However I would like to give you the following thoughts :

1. Air that you just have warmed up inside the cabin will flow out thru your Dorade
2. Air you just have warmed up is then used to feed oxygen to the burner.

Separating warmed-up air from combustion air is more economic.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by starminx

Impressive demonstration I must say.
However I would like to give you the following thoughts :

1. Air that you just have warmed up inside the cabin will flow out thru your Dorade
2. Air you just have warmed up is then used to feed oxygen to the burner.

Separating warmed-up air from combustion air is more economic.

Not from a humidity control standpoint. If you run a closed combustion loop you’ll need to run a dehumidifier which is highly inefficient. Best solution is to warm the makeup air via heat exchanger through the exhaust but this introduces its own issues with stack temperature, although not really an issue on a boat.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by sailor1924

I'm unsure if two Vacustacs would be more effective. I have not installed the sealed intake that I was planning since installing the Vacustac and have experienced no blowback or flame outs and explosive re-ignitions. My installation is about 1 meter aft of the mainmast and is vertical. I leave a dorade vent open when running the heater and plan to install the intake this year but I don't think I can have them as close together as 30 cm horizontally maybe 40 cm will work?

Take a look at the attached video which I stumbled upon when looking for a solution to the heater getting blown out in high (30-35 kn) winds coming in beam on. This is what sold me on trying out the Vacustac

The downdraft problem, in my experience, is not caused by a draft of air hitting the smoke stack. It is caused by an area of high pressure on deck compared to the air inside the boat. The high pressure air pushes down the smoke stack (a downdraft). This can be caused by a strong puff of wind blowing directly at the smokestack exit, or reflected wind, or, when sailing, by the high pressure air to windward of a close hauled sail.

We used a simple "H" pipe (pictured below). Notice how beat up it is? We often sailed in bitterly cold conditions, while using the heater, and the jib sheets often caught it while tacking. While in port we put a 60" extension on it and wired the "H" to the shroud for stability. This kept it above the full boat tent.

The tall stack also helped create a strong updraft in the stack. Some heaters also have a draft fan at the bottom of the heater.

I also disagree with using outside air for combustion. Again, the enemy is humidity. Our bodies give off a great deal of moisture and other sources, such as cooking flame, steam from the pot, all add humidity to the air in the cabin. This will condense on any cold surface.

The path to reducing humidity is to burn that humid air in the heater and it will send it's moisture out the stack. So you let the fire in your heater burn inside air. To replace that air you need to allow cold (DRY) outside air into the cabin. Dorade vents on deck are not the best because they will let heated air right out. Cracked opening ports or a gap at the bottom of your wash boards is better because they are below the level of the roof of your cabin.

Circulating fans to move the heat down to the cabin sole are also useful.

These are the tactics we used, with 11,000 BTU of diesel heat, to keep Wings toasty warm all winter long for 10 years in Seattle, even when the seawater in our berth was frozen over.

[Bentwings]

Until I found these Mr.Heaters I would never recommend propane heating but internet searching and my own testing of the mid sized catalytic heater convinced me. They have about 0 CO production I measured and saw the same on video on the internet. I stayed up all night monitoring it and got no indication of CO. Plus no additional humidity. In the boat. My boat isn’t exactly air tight but not drafty. These don’t require electricity only a AA battery for ignition. I bought two 20pound tanks and you can either swap Them at gas stations or have them filled. If you choose this method don’t blow fans directly at these as that disturbs the burning.

I also have a new AC that has reverse flow so you get heat instead of cold. This will work down to water temp of 40 deg.i use a preheat on it and cheat. I’m running at 34 deg f water temp now. It uses electricity but it is surprisingly efficient.

This plan has worked down to 5 deg f this year. I have a diesel heater I’m installing that will take over as primary heat when it gets below 0 deg f. There are portable ones like this too.

[capnorv]

AMAZING, you keep your boat in the water for extended times below 0 degree Fahrenheit I would never have the nerve. I;ve seen what ice can do.

[Bentwings]

They said they would install the new bubblers next week. We don’t get freeze over until late Dec here on the Mississippi River, the water temp near the bottom is considerably warmer than freezing so this is pumped up around the boats . It looks like we are in our own lakes in the winter. There has already been ice flows from the first deep freeze.they were crunching into the docs for a couple days. I just boat hooked a couple that got stuck.
This is my first year on my own down here so I’m learning....the hard way.

The shrink wrap was a great improvement. It’s been as much as 35 deg warmer out back from outside temps. When the sun is out is when it’s the most effective. Like a greenhouse.

[capnorv]

Originally Posted by Bentwings

They said they would install the new bubblers next week. We don’t get freeze over until late Dec here on the Mississippi River, the water temp near the bottom is considerably warmer than freezing so this is pumped up around the boats . It looks like we are in our own lakes in the winter. There has already been ice flows from the first deep freeze.they were crunching into the docs for a couple days. I just boat hooked a couple that got stuck.
This is my first year on my own down here so I’m learning....the hard way.

The shrink wrap was a great improvement. It’s been as much as 35 deg warmer out back from outside temps. When the sun is out is when it’s the most effective. Like a greenhouse.

Wow, that sounds amazing, though not my cup of tea. I wish you luck through your Winter experience!

[Bentwings]

My mom and dad’s parents came from Scandinavia and I grew up farther north so I suppose there is some “force” that this part of our great country thatdrives us to more of less stay here regardless of weather. It’s said that we have we have become rough,tough and used to “ hard ships”.LOL. This year there are only about a dozen here. Last year there were twice that many. I think there are fewer upstream at those two marinas too from what I can see.
There are over a hundred boats on the hard stands. Plus about another hundred trailer boats. Many of those are live aboards for the summer. It’s pretty active here. You sometimes have to wait in line at the fuel dock.
There is a pub here too that is very busy in the summer. Pretty slow now however.