Help 100 Live Aboard Sailors Keep Their Homes By Offering Feedback on Mooring Field

[Kettlewell]

If there are laws that prevent long term anchor outs, please be specific. Where I live on the ICW, the sheriff's office who is responsible for enforcement gave a report to our town that the only tools they had hinge on the definition of "liveaboard" which made enforcement impossible. I'd like to set them sraight if there is a law they missed. A specific code citation would be really helpful please.

There are laws against having an unregistered or documented boat and discharging waste, there are laws about anchor lights, and there are laws concerning derelict vessels. Here's the FWC page on those: https://myfwc.com/boating/waterway/derelict-vessels/

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

There are laws against having an unregistered or documented boat and discharging waste, there are laws about anchor lights, and there are laws concerning derelict vessels. Here's the FWC page on those: https://myfwc.com/boating/waterway/derelict-vessels/

Again, these are laws pertaining to derelict vessels, not long term anchor-outs, many of which are on the contuum of derelict (from your link, a derelict vessel is "Wrecked, junked, or in substantially dismantled condition").

In my neck of the woods (near Clearwater Beach on the ICW), the Pinellas County SHeriff's office patrols the ICW. I happened to be in the audience when they briefed the City Council on why they were powerless against the long-term anchor-out community. Yes, they enforce anchor-light requirements, and yes, they inspect heads. And yes there is a law against being a liveaboard ---- but it hinges on the definition of "liveaboard" in the Florida State statutes. The definition is easily skirted by simply saying "Oh, I don't live on my boat - I have another address." In four years, the Sheriff's office had never successfully used the statute preventing liveaboards. Heck, in a nearby jurisdiction, one enterprising guy would buy near derelict boats for $1 and barely fix them up and rent them on AirBNB. Many of the anchor-outs are comfortable in the murky loopholes of laws and ordnances.

So I ask again - what are the laws that will limit long-term anchor-outs, the folks who don't want to move so much as 1-mile every couple months?

[CaptTom]

Since this thread became active again, I happened to re-read and reflect on the thread title.

Hmmm. They want me to help them keep their "homes"?

Maybe this will help. I'll explain how I kept my home:

I bought a run-down old house I could afford, a half-hour drive from where I worked. I took out a 30-year mortgage, since paid off. I rebuilt virtually every part of it over the years, mostly working alone. Some parts multiple times. All the while trying to live and raise a family in it. I've paid property taxes. I've paid insurance and utility bills.

Now, someone wants me to help them stake a claim to a small patch of public waterways, where they can live for free, preventing me and other cruisers from ever being able to stop there while exercising our right to navigation in the waterways.

Sorry, I know it's a nuanced issue and I respect all the other points of view on this. I feel the pain of homelessness, drug addiction and mental illness. Maybe I'm just feeling crotchety today.

But I can't see any way to justify squatters using the word "homes."

[Kettlewell]

So I ask again - what are the laws that will limit long-term anchor-outs, the folks who don't want to move so much as 1-mile every couple months?

So, the problem is that citizens just don't want to see anchored boats?

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

So, the problem is that citizens just don't want to see anchored boats?

Yep - go ahead and fight for the rights of boats like this one anchored not far from where I live. And advocate for 'campers' living in tents on sidewallks and "RV'ers" parked along city streets and 'patrons' who 'read' for 12-hours in public libraries while making a mess in the bathrooms while taking make-shift showers.

I know it sounds romantic and bohemian to live on a boat. But once the boat becomes effectively permanently anchored, it crosses a line - again, these folks object to moving a single mile every 45-days. Unfortunately, because a few take advantage and stretch loopholes, it makes it hard for others.

[Kettlewell]

Sure, but in my experience having anchored amongst boats like that one pictured, probably 95% of them aren't registered properly, and probably 95% of ones that look that bad are simply being stored by locals living on land nearby. Plus, that one looks like it would be covered by the already existing derelict vessel laws.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Sure, but in my experience having anchored amongst boats like that one pictured, probably 95% of them aren't registered properly, and probably 95% of ones that look that bad are simply being stored by locals living on land nearby. Plus, that one looks like it would be covered by the already existing derelict vessel laws.

It takes years to clear-out derelict boats. Even in a state such as Florida, the process to seize a boat is difficult. Individual notices, then public notices, court judgements, then removal requires budgeting and bidding before award. The entire process is expensive and time consuming. And that's if the boat has been truly abandoned without anyone to argue otherwise. Last year in my community of Madeira Beach (I live inland and not on the ICW), the town of 4000 residents spent almost $200k to remove 8 abandoned boats, a couple had been washed up on the beach for over a year. Even citing unregistered boats is a problem - the owner claims they are not a liveaboard and gives some sort of bogus address. Sure, law enforcement could track them down and prove otherwise, but what a waste of time - even more public resources being expended simply because someone wants to call their boat a home and not move.

Kettlewell, I appreciate your many posts. But I think you're misguided on this one. I respect your opinion, but not sure you've thought this one through. These are not bohemian sailors your advocating for. They are squatters each trying to defend their squatters rights.

[Kettlewell]

Kettlewell, I appreciate your many posts. But I think you're misguided on this one. I respect your opinion, but not sure you've thought this one through. These are not bohemian sailors your advocating for. They are squatters each trying to defend their squatters rights.

What I am arguing against are laws that end up prohibiting legitimate cruisers like myself. The laws proposed in Miami Beach are so draconian that none of us will be able to visit there. It's like saying we must eliminate all parking on city streets because someone is living in their RV.

[mvweebles]

On that I don't necessarily disagree, though I don't think a mooring field is draconian.

As mentioned, law enforcement is denuded because of a lax definition of Liveaboard in the Florida state statures. It's a very short paragraph. What I don't fully understand is why no one has changed the definition. Clearly there are unintended consequences to the existing wording. Would not seem overly difficult or controversial to change that.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by CanuckSailorguy

I'm not new to CF. I've been a member off and on since 2011. I don't enjoy this forum, largely because of the attitudes of a great many people here.

Originally Posted by CanuckSailorguy

I'm bouncing back and forth between the threads and yes, I got who the OP is on this one wrong. You can let your breath out now...

CSG, I have read this thread, as well as your other 30 posts. 27 of those posts were on two threads dealing with the same identical issue.

I am a details kind of guy.

When I read someone posts, and they state things like the first quote above in red, but your profile states you joined in June of 2022 . . . . less than two years ago . . It brings up doubts . . . . . Maybe you were a member previously? Makes me wonder if you got booted off the forum . . . and why?. . . .

And when called out on whether or not you started this thread, and you were wrong . . . . ,

And you keep bringing up unrelated items to defend your position . . . .
Your credibility isn't too great to the casual observer.

I checked your profile under the heading "Friends", and it states "CanuckSailorguy has not made any friends yet" . . . . Hmmmm, makes you think, doesn't it?

[TPG]

I think you're right on the money with this.

I'm still trying to figure out when public waterways became "my free private anchorage" that I neither paid for nor hold have any formal claim to.

The idea that I can just drop an anchor somewhere and plan on staying in that same spot indefinitely, goes against the original intent of anchoring in public waterways.

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Since this thread became active again, I happened to re-read and reflect on the thread title.

Hmmm. They want me to help them keep their "homes"?

Maybe this will help. I'll explain how I kept my home:

I bought a run-down old house I could afford, a half-hour drive from where I worked. I took out a 30-year mortgage, since paid off. I rebuilt virtually every part of it over the years, mostly working alone. Some parts multiple times. All the while trying to live and raise a family in it. I've paid property taxes. I've paid insurance and utility bills.

Now, someone wants me to help them stake a claim to a small patch of public waterways, where they can live for free, preventing me and other cruisers from ever being able to stop there while exercising our right to navigation in the waterways.

Sorry, I know it's a nuanced issue and I respect all the other points of view on this. I feel the pain of homelessness, drug addiction and mental illness. Maybe I'm just feeling crotchety today.

But I can't see any way to justify squatters using the word "homes."

[more]

Originally Posted by SailingPug

The City of Miami Beach has engaged in a coordinated harassment campaign against us - removing a public dock, cutting off access to shore, food, water, and basic supplies, installing 100s of no docking signs and cameras pointing at us, spreading false information about us on social media, and basically treating us like criminals for living on the water. See the link below for local news coverage on the issue:



[/URL]

how nobody don't make business ad buy 20-30 ft rib and open sea taxi.
or your 100 boat group buy big rib and hire 2 guy to transfer you from your boat to shore

100 x 100-200$ month problem solve

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

What I am arguing against are laws that end up prohibiting legitimate cruisers like myself. The laws proposed in Miami Beach are so draconian that none of us will be able to visit there. It's like saying we must eliminate all parking on city streets because someone is living in their RV.

I totally agree that this issue is hurting us all. The squatters force municipalities and states to pass draconian rules which impact legitimate cruisers. Just as they negatively impact the locals who live, work and recreate along the waterways. It seems like the only ones who come out ahead are the squatters who get to live free on their chosen patch of submerged land.

My point is, let's be honest about where the problems began. Yes, the city is over-reacting. But they have some legitimate concerns, which are very much aligned with the concerns of anyone may want to anchor occasionally as part of cruising.

We need to work with those trying to solve the problem, not allow the squatters to give the impression they represent all boaters. That only encourages the scorched-earth "no boaters allowed" policies which keep being proposed.

[mikeod]

For those who think a 45 day limit every 6 months is ok. What about boats stored on moorings should it be the same to open up space for others? In the northeast most harbors have a 10 yr plus waiting list to place a private mooring. My point is if you can store a boat for 6 months out of the year on a mooring why not the same for all. Including liveaboards. Also Florida has no system for placing a private mooring like most other places. This year Jensen Beach was kicking people off moorings and telling them to go anchor because 40 plus mph winds were forecast.

[mikeod]

That's exactly what people do when they place a legal private mooring in places like Newport or any other harbor with private moorings. 35 yr wait list in Newport harbor. Nobody else can ever use that spot until you give it up.