IS CRUISING DEAD or DYING, STABLE or GROWING?

[PM2017]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

Covid may have a positive impact. Brokers say sales are strong right now & I've been told it's almost impossible to buy a decent used camper/rv. The presumption is that people are tired of the quarantine but afraid of conventional travel/crowds. They see boats and rv's as a way to get out and do things while still maintaining some relative isolation/safety. Hopefully this will translate to some percentage adopting the cruising lifestyle for many years to come. We definitely need some younger blood out here!

Having just gone through the boat buying process (took two years) I agree that the market is hot for cats. Also, I’ve noticed quite a few people selling boats after 1-3 years. I’m not sure how common that is, but it was noticeable during the process.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ

...It will be interesting, but who knows, maybe people are thinking that spending hours with a few hundred people traveling by airplane, isn't safe now, and they're actually thinking long-term and re-orienting themselves.

Yup, probably a combination of a lot of these factors. And it's not just bigger boats and RVs that are hot this season. All manner of more local activity is up, from provincial/national park usage to golf courses, people are turning to various 'staycation' options as they can.


CBC News:
Outdoor gear hard to come by this summer as Calgarians snap up kayaks, paddleboards and skateboards

[Lou-In-NJ]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

Where does that chart on page one showing cruising ages come from, what's the sample and methodology?

In marinas a lot of the cruisers I have met have been old(er) retired people. Out and about I've met people more my own age in their 20s and 30s. Normally living on the cheap and sailing around the Med and across the Atlantic.

Like me these are the type of people that won't be seen in sailing clubs, won't be buying new boats, possibly not even buying through brokers, won't be buying or even reading sailing magazines, have zero interest in racing.

Just want to have a home, and sail/move it around fun or exciting places. The majority of people on this forum are based and/or cruise in North America. I don't know about the states, but the Caribbean isn't exactly cheap, nor does it have anything like the nightlife and party atmosphere of Europe, so would be another reason the younger cruisers aren't out that way. Central and South America would be a different story.

In any case with that in mind, how would these people ever be included in some of the surveys referred to on the first page of this thread?

Interesting mikedefieslife; What you say makes sense and stands to reason when I think about it. I think that data can be reliably derived from several sources including new boat sales, number of in-force insurance policies, state boat registrations, and USCG documentation statistics to name a few where I'd look if I was going to research it. So are you living aboard now or in the past? If so, where and for how long? How do you earn your living, and how long do you plan on keeping it up?

Originally Posted by AreWeAfloat

That is an interesting graph and question. It is a question we have been wondering ourselves. We are in our late 20's early 30's and are actively looking for a bluewater boat to begin cruising.

We've heard from many folks that the majority of people we would meet on the water would be older. From the charters we've sailed in the Caribbean, most of the people we've encountered on other boats have been much older than us. Though not a necessity, it would be a nice thing to have in common sailing and cruising with others in our age range.

AreWeAfloat, growing up sailing, my buddies and I were always much younger compared to others in the fleet, but when we hit land, the demographics were like any other place during "vacation season". Of course if you do this full-time, and want to be around a younger crowd in the mooring field, you might take the above advice of mikedefieslife. While I've thought a lot about the liveaboard and cruising life over the years, I never thought about the age of my potential neighbors, frankly, I assumed we'd be pretty much be by ourselves with only occasional socializing, and at that, older people were interesting to me for their wisdom and stories. My question for you is how do you plan on making a living, and how long will you do it for?

[rslifkin]

I wonder how much of the change in people's activities, etc. will last once things settle down. How much will be "oh good, we can go back to doing what we really wanted to" and how much will be "you know, now that we had to find new stuff to do, we found something we like better"

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ

Please do comment sailorboy1. What you're observing is a drill-down on certain aspects that affect what people are, and will be doing. But you're observations, whether general, or particular to any of the posts, are still very much wanted!

cruising is alive just fine

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

cruising is alive just fine

Well cruising might be but boating in general is WAY down compared to 10 or 15 years ago. Covid has created an uptick in boating that may or may not last. Probably won't IMHO.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ

The U.S. economy is a huge concern of mine. I got clients out of the market on February 4th (most listened) because of a number of growing concerns I had, and the Dow was flirting with a new high of 29k, it hit that the next day, and the day after that we had another new all-time high, and that was when one client's wife called me and asked if they should get back in, I told her my fundamental reasoning hadn't changed...(husband later told me he took a lot of crap for 20 days until the market tanked.) Anyway, my more risk tolerant folks to a ride with me and got back in at Dow 19k, and rode it back to 27k and got out again, and at that same time, the stragglers who didn't listen to me in February, were all to happy to hear from me again and get off the roller-coaster after they had at least made back their losses and actually had a YTD gain.

So this is a trader's market and we're all in cash, and that's the way it's going to be for a while, and your Bloomberg article is one reason why.

As far as growth in boat ownership leading to new cruisers, I would imagine it's a law of numbers proposition; only boat owners can become cruisers, and some percentage of boat owners will become cruisers, so if there is an increase in boat owners, it just stands to reason that there will eventually be a bump in cruisers as well...

I'm glad some others aren't afraid to profit on a volatile market no matter what created it. I was given the guilt trip when I said I did. Good traders have no emotion, but they sure can read it.

[MicHughV]

interestingly enuff...a trip to any Walmart store will show empty bicycle racks, usually dozens and dozens hanging there, these days....none........lots people out and about on bikes these days...a passing fad ??....time will tell...

[barnakiel]

I look around and what I find there is now more liveaboarding. Less cruising. This makes 100% given the situation we are in.


BUT I wonder if this will keep. You know what I mean - people settle down, get a cat onboard, a dog, a couple of kids. Or just get 'stuck' in a nice place with a warm climate. And then their cruising days are over.


So my proposition is that this will happen. Many cruisers will settle down now and not go cruising again. Much as they may be still living in their boat, providing endless joy and headache to marina staff.

b.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Well cruising might be but boating in general is WAY down compared to 10 or 15 years ago. Covid has created an uptick in boating that may or may not last. Probably won't IMHO.

Hmmm, I know cruising-level boat sales are way down from their peak, but I thought smaller, cheaper, runabout type boats (fishing boats, zippy boats, even dinghy sailors) was up. No?

Originally Posted by MicHughV

interestingly enuff...a trip to any Walmart store will show empty bicycle racks, usually dozens and dozens hanging there, these days....none........lots people out and about on bikes these days...a passing fad ??....time will tell...

Indeed. We'll see. All depends on what our new normal finally settles in at I suppose.

Another thing I wonder about are motorcycles. My cruising season has been turned into a motorcycle season, and there sure seems to be a lot of bikes on the road.

[LEOCAT66]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

I think technology has changed the picture too. When I was young, it was hard to gather information about a small island somewhere. If it wasn't in world book, you were out of luck. Now, people have videos, pictures, stories of far away places on their phone.

So much of the mystery and adventure is gone.

Dead on right, the mystery has faded, primarily due to electronic devices and comforts unavailable to old school cruisers, who went out to discover, on their own, with only essential items, just to find out. Back then they were accepted, and honored, as hero’s. We can all name them, those who were our cruising, idols, who inspired us to follow.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by LEOCAT66

Dead on right, the mystery has faded, primarily due to electronic devices and comforts unavailable to old school cruisers, who went out to discover, on their own, with only essential items, just to find out. Back then they were accepted, and honored, as hero’s. We can all name them, those who were our cruising, idols, who inspired us to follow.

Come up to my cruising ground (Newfoundland). There is still plenty of mystery here. Heck, many of the charts are sufficiently off to make it very interesting at times.

[MicHughV]

from where I stand...motorbiking activity has dwindled to near zero......
motorbiking and bars are kinda synonymous around these parts....
but bars are closed....no "Bike nights", etc....no mass bike rides....no jobs...can't make bike payments, etc ad infinitum...still see a few bikes here and there...but not many....and quite frankly riding a bike in 100 degree weather with jeans, boots, etc....is a tad warm....especially stopped at a red light, ask me...I know

but the small boat market definitely seems to be on a tear....people aren't really going anywhere or doing anything, but just getting out on the water....

[SailSB]

A very interesting article on change in cruisers numbers. Data is a little old but I think still relevant.

https://cornellsailing.com/2017/08/j...-the-boats-go/

Ken

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by LEOCAT66

Dead on right, the mystery has faded, primarily due to electronic devices and comforts unavailable to old school cruisers, who went out to discover, on their own, with only essential items, just to find out. Back then they were accepted, and honored, as hero’s. We can all name them, those who were our cruising, idols, who inspired us to follow.

Every time I walk into a local TV store, I am amazed with 4 K footage displayed on the demo machines.


A 4K TV set here is about 3-8k. A boat is say 30-80k. Why pay the 10x extra for being able to enjoy Marquesas while sipping Martinis?


And the sofa is not rolling either.


barnakiel