Jury Duty for Cruisers???

[RTAM62]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Perhaps if you view it from the perspective of if you were accused of a crime that put you before a jury would you want to be judged by someone with your stated perspective or would you want a jury more like the other you, with an open and intelligent ability to assess the evidence and make a decision.

If that would ever happen to me i would rather be judged by a panel of legal experts and not by 12 inexperienced people in a box who are there under duress and might not give a rats razoo and do anything to get out of that room rather sooner than later.

[RTAM62]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

In common law countries you are not deciding their fate, you are deciding on the evidence presented whether or not the accused is guilty as charged. The accused and the legislature decides their fate.

Well as a juror you would in some way seal someone's fate in a guilty verdict.

[hpeer]

We use SBI as a mailing address but retain legal residence at our PA cabin. The only problem is that some governmental agencies (e.g. DMV) want to send stuff to the PA address and mail forwarding only works for so long.

We served on a criminal jury trial once, I was the Jury Foreman. We sent a guy to prison. It changed my attitude about people, for the better. The criminal was from the hood, most jurors were from the hood, they were NOT snookered by his line of poo. They were tired of his type. At the end of the trial all doubts were erased about whether we did the right thing, we did.

Anyway, it was a worthwhile experience and I would do it again.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by RTAM62

I don't believe in a civic duty that comes with threats having said that you only see it as a civic duty when it suits you, there are more people in financial distress who perform that so called 'civic duty'.

Given the thread was from Oct 18, I suspect the issue has been resolved one way or the other

Worth noting that in the UK you will attend unless you have a really good excuse. Serving on ops for military personnel was one that worked but we had to tell the court when the individual was back or when they were planning on leaving the service and I did.

[SV Siren]

For some reason, dumb luck or whatever you may wish to call it, I have been called for jury duty more times than I can remember. I have sat on plenty of juries, some of which made me feel a little uncomfortable, but I still performed my duty. In all of my juries, everyone took this role very seriously, and rationally. I would gladly do it again if called. I find being a part of the process and seeing what goes on quite interesting. My only bad taste after serving was the attempted TV interviewers trying to get me and the others to do an on camera interview after a trials conclusion. Something I refuse to do.

If you cannot serve for one valid reason or another, and my wife and I have had reasons, we simply contacted the clerk, and they took us off the pool list. It was pretty straightforward.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by RTAM62

Well as a juror you would in some way seal someone's fate in a guilty verdict.

There's a sort of division of labour.

The legislature decides whether or not a matter is to be considered criminal or not and mandates a range of penalties.

The jury decides the guilt or innocence of the charged.

The judge "judges" the extent of the charged's criminality and the extent of the punishment to be applied in the case.

And even then the fate is not sealed if the defendant has good reason to appeal the sentence.

Looking at it from another direction.

If you are a fair minded person who forms opinions on a reason basis rather than a superficially emotional basis and you avoid jury duty and your place is taken by a non thinking, superficial person who generally forms opinions on a personal likes and dislikes emotional basis and this individual swings the jury to a guilty verdict in a criminal case and an innocent person goes to jail because they are ill formed and ugly and don't present well, what then.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by SV Siren

For some reason, dumb luck or whatever you may wish to call it, I have been called for jury duty more times than I can remember. I have sat on plenty of juries, some of which made me feel a little uncomfortable, but I still performed my duty. In all of my juries, everyone took this role very seriously, and rationally. I would gladly do it again if called. I find being a part of the process and seeing what goes on quite interesting. My only bad taste after serving was the attempted TV interviewers trying to get me and the others to do an on camera interview after a trials conclusion. Something I refuse to do.

If you cannot serve for one valid reason or another, and my wife and I have had reasons, we simply contacted the clerk, and they took us off the pool list. It was pretty straightforward.

Exactly! Should (heaven forbid) the situation arise where I was in the position of defendant I would want a jury of those with your approach, not those of RTAM62.

Originally Posted by RaymondR

There's a sort of division of labour.

The legislature decides whether or not a matter is to be considered criminal or not and mandates a range of penalties.

The jury decides the guilt or innocence of the charged.

The judge "judges" the extent of the charged's criminality and the extent of the punishment to be applied in the case.

And even then the fate is not sealed if the defendant has good reason to appeal the sentence.

Looking at it from another direction.

If you are a fair minded person who forms opinions on a reason basis rather than a superficially emotional basis and you avoid jury duty and your place is taken by a non thinking, superficial person who generally forms opinions on a personal likes and dislikes emotional basis and this individual swings the jury to a guilty verdict in a criminal case and an innocent person goes to jail because they are ill formed and ugly and don't present well, what then.

So true.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by RTAM62

i drive responsibly and i'm not a thief i work hard and pay my taxes i'm not under threat of anything.. but i draw the line when i have to decide someone's fate under threat i think it's morally wrong never done it and i never will no i don't see that as my responsibility or duty...

I did NOT say nor imply that you personally do not drive responsibly nor that you are a thief. You are missing or intentionally obfuscating the point.

The point is, living in society involves not only rights but responsibilities. Unfortunately there are those that do not drive responsibly, that are thieves and more. In a society there must be laws to protect all of the members from the bad acts of the few. With laws there must be enforcement and consequences and some way to implement those.

As a member of this society you benefit from the laws that protect us all. As part of that law violators must face the consequences or the laws with have no meaning and no effect. The consequences in our society is arrest and trial by a jury of ones peers.

From your posts it appears that you want to live in a civilized society, reap the benefits of law and order but reject your responsibilities as a member of society.

[SV Siren]

Originally Posted by RTAM62

Well as a juror you would in some way seal someone's fate in a guilty verdict.

They sealed their fate when they "allegedly" broke the law. Innocent until proven guilty. Avoiding jury duty can result in someone held on bail who cannot make bail, being held for an extended period of time, if for nothing else because you're too worried about passing judgement. You do your duty, and get on with our life. I have found rapists, assault perps, murderers, and the like guilty without a second thought, because they met the requirements for a guilty finding. Most traffic courts and other petty stuff usually get's plead out beforehand. If a person is innocent or the threshold hasn't been met, well then I voted not guilty..and in all cases my conscience was clear and I slept like a baby that night either way.

[RTAM62]

Originally Posted by SV Siren

They sealed their fate when they "allegedly" broke the law. Innocent until proven guilty. Avoiding jury duty can result in someone held on bail who cannot make bail, being held for an extended period of time, if for nothing else because you're too worried about passing judgement. You do your duty, and get on with our life. I have found rapists, assault perps, murderers, and the like guilty without a second thought, because they met the requirements for a guilty finding. Most traffic courts and other petty stuff usually get's plead out beforehand. If a person is innocent or the threshold hasn't been met, well then I voted not guilty..and in all cases my conscience was clear and I slept like a baby that night either way.

In your own words... i have found rapists, assault perps, murderers and the like guilty without a second thought, because they met the requirements ... WOW... and that is exactly one of the reasons i am against jury duty and all trials should be dealt with by a panel of legal experts they do it in most European countries i'm not worried about passing judgment because that will never happen trust me i sleep like a baby too i also have a clear conscience but for different reasons than you and i've never betrayed my beliefs for that matter by sitting in a jury box and passing judgment on defendants or not and it sure as hell is not my civic duty..

[RTAM62]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I did NOT say nor imply that you personally do not drive responsibly nor that you are a thief. You are missing or intentionally obfuscating the point.

The point is, living in society involves not only rights but responsibilities. Unfortunately there are those that do not drive responsibly, that are thieves and more. In a society there must be laws to protect all of the members from the bad acts of the few. With laws there must be enforcement and consequences and some way to implement those.

As a member of this society you benefit from the laws that protect us all. As part of that law violators must face the consequences or the laws with have no meaning and no effect. The consequences in our society is arrest and trial by a jury of ones peers.

From your posts it appears that you want to live in a civilized society, reap the benefits of law and order but reject your responsibilities as a member of society.

Are you always so repetitive ? got your message the first time, yes i am a member of this society as you put it i'm born here leaving is no option i am entitled to all benefits i pay for and it doesn't come cheap thank you very much no i don't reject all my responsibilities as a member of society you are being very presumptuous now you don't know me at all the only thing i refuse to do is jury duty judging people goes against my beliefs and my conscience that's all and that made me a jury dodger for life it's been 28 years since my last summons i refuse to do the cattle walk and the jury jive talk i am the master of my own mind i can see your potential as a juror good luck with that adios.....

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by RTAM62

i am entitled to all benefits i pay for and it doesn't come cheap thank you very much no ..

I am sure you are, but this has nothing to do with Cruising and sailing.

Thread closed.