Land home, yes or no?

[zeehag]

as i never was able to afford to buy my own home and i moved on board a boat in 1990, i sold no houses to cruise. picked up skirts and ran.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I would suggest ease of credit has been the larger driver of property values over the last 20 years, fundamentals coming a distant second.

It's increasingly difficult to find people familiar with the fundamentals any longer. In the US it seems that for every 1 person who has a good understanding of the traditional economic fundamentals, there are 10 legitimate experts in all the "get rich quick in real estate and how to justify it" schemes (i.e. experts in utilizing all the irrational regulations, tax breaks, government subsidies/handouts; hokey logic to justify the same). The one person who speaks of traditional fundamentals in a room full of real-estate/finance types is attacked to protect the real estate "wealth" herd. Heck...just mentioning economic fundamentals can get you labeled as a "doomsday" purveyor. How nutty is that.

In the US I buy into the principles expecting housing prices to drop to at most the 2007-2009 prices within the next 1-3 years with no real recovery for the foreseeable future. I sold my house last year, will be cruising full-time next year. Plan is to buy (rural) property while afloat for when we swallow the anchor someday...but not until seeing what the inflationary (and geopolitical) picture is like in the coming years.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

There are pros and cons on all sides of this question. I’m just trying to get hard data on what people actually do.

This question came up in another thread. I thought I knew the answer, but perhaps not…

Wifey and I are currently in heavy debate on this exact topic. We live in a manufactured community. We own the house, but not the land. Our plans are to 'snowbird' 7 months, then sail back to spend the summers here.

Her only family is a sister here, and she wants something to come back/home to. She also has some furniture her grandmother gave her that she wants to hang onto.

I go the other way. I have no desire to make lease payments and pay taxes when we could berth the boat for a fraction of the cost. If we ever decide to come off the water, I told her I would build her a tree house among palm trees, someplace a lot warmer than here.

I will say, after this last 2' snowfall - in an area that touts 12 months of green - we only just got rid of the last remnants of snow 4 days ago, ....which took 1.5 months! She is seriously reconsidering.

I will do a follow-up. As it is, we are keeping the house, but are registering the boat in Canada, using a Victoria address, US insurance, and Canada HAM licensing. Sound like fun? I told her about Canada's medicare, but so far, US medicare is getting it done.

BTW, we are both dual citizens of CAN and the US.

[AZUS]

We kept our big house where the kids grew up when we cruised for a year. Now we’re sailing the Med season and back here for the winter. Will probably always keep the house, as it’s the clan’s gathering place for our big Thanksgiving.

[sailcrazy]

When we were living/working in the Philippines, we bought our current boat in Singapore. We sailed her to the PI, put her in the (new) marina there, and continued to live on land as we sailed weekends and our annual 2-month holiday. After 6-7 years we gave up our rented flat, and moved aboard full time. Later I was transferred to Hong Kong, but we left the boat in the PI. On retirement we went back onboard, sailed to Phuket, stayed there about a year, then deckshipped her to Marmar, Turkey and spent the next 3+seasons sailing the Medd, but returning to our MN lake home for the off season (winter???). Got tired of the Medd, deck shipped her to the Caribbean, and are now in our 5th season here. We currently spend ~6mos on board, and 6mos at our lake home. I'd prefer to go sailing full time, but the admiral needs her time in the dirt (the garden). To answer your question....we've done both!

[Tom and Maje]

We sold everything, and I was perfectly happy. My husband though was not. He wanted to go back to work, so we're mostly on land.

Maje

[akprb]

Sold land home, kept 80 rental units spread over twenty or so buildings.

Regret selling all the tools that were in my shop. Kept all of our special belongings and furnishings in storage in one of our buildings. That was a good move.

Cruised for about 5 years, lived in New Zealand for 7. Returned to States and bought another home along with a shop full of the same tools I sold at a steep discount 12 years earlier :-)

Trying to stick to the question and not wander off topic! :-)

Can I inject an opinion? Thanks.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...I love being on the boat, and love living somewhere which moves from place to place, but I also love cities and I love my work, so I personally have no desire to cut my ties to land. YMMV!!

I only cruise a month at a time or so--mostly I day sail and love it that way. However, I've cruised enough to know I like all of these. I find Dockhead's balance refreshing. It seems too few people like their work! I had retired, but have returned to limited consulting... because it is fun, sometimes more fun than sailing!


But if I were to go, there are several things I would consider:

• How long? For 1-3 years keeping makes more sense, unless you hate your house. Longer is variable.
• What situation do I want to return to? Same house? Similar house, different location? Downsized return? If I was ready to move anyway, I would sell the house, invest the proceeds in a fenced off manner, and store a few things. I would NOT use the house sale to fund cruising. I would not rent it out because I personally would not find it relaxing, unless I knew the person well.
• How do you plan to fund retirement? What about health problems? Those that have not faced these things may not know how ugly chronic disease can get.

I've had friends that went the adventurous route. Now in their late 50s all are bitter and disappointed, because they cannot afford to retire. IF someone gets sick, they are truly screwed.

I have always thought that work you love is the MOST important thing in life, because you will do that more hours than anything else. I don't mean greed or workaholicism. I mean work you simply like. Then everything else is easy. I think this is one of the most important things to teach in school; find something you like that someone will pay you to do.


So if I have an opinion, it is that my answer would depend on WHEN in life I went cruising.

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks folks. Thanks for all the votes, and for all the stories. akprb, of course you can interject an opinion — lots have . I just don’t want this to devolve into a “My Way is the Best/Only Way”. Too many CF discussions seem to go that route.

There are a multitude of variables and considerations that go into the choice of keeping a land home — way too many for a simple poll to cover. This is why I intentionally kept the question as simple as possible.

But sure, interject away .

And keep the votes coming (even if you don’t want to comment). I’m surprised at the near-split. My belief was that most cruisers here kept a land home. The data is suggesting I was wrong — which is great. I follow the data.

[akprb]

Thanks for permission to opine :-)

First an interesting follow up question would be "of the 23 who sold all what was your experience five years later?"

As to my two cents I would suggest those who have had "the dream" for years but little experience hold onto their land based home if at all financially possible for at least two years after moving onboard.

This goes along with my advice to not make any major modifications or improvements to your new boat until you have taken her cruising for at least three months.

That's it, I'll keep it short. Fun thread :-)

[Boatsie]

Originally Posted by Singularity

It's increasingly difficult to find people familiar with the fundamentals any longer. In the US it seems that for every 1 person who has a good understanding of the traditional economic fundamentals, there are 10 legitimate experts in all the "get rich quick in real estate and how to justify it" schemes (i.e. experts in utilizing all the irrational regulations, tax breaks, government subsidies/handouts; hokey logic to justify the same). The one person who speaks of traditional fundamentals in a room full of real-estate/finance types is attacked to protect the real estate "wealth" herd. Heck...just mentioning economic fundamentals can get you labeled as a "doomsday" purveyor. How nutty is that.

In the US I buy into the principles expecting housing prices to drop to at most the 2007-2009 prices within the next 1-3 years with no real recovery for the foreseeable future. I sold my house last year, will be cruising full-time next year. Plan is to buy (rural) property while afloat for when we swallow the anchor someday...but not until seeing what the inflationary (and geopolitical) picture is like in the coming years.

BTW thank you Mike O. I wasn't sure if you meant house or home. I now guess keeping a house is meant.
From my experience.. I realize I'm open to scabs,
vultures, grabby people, yet this was my experience.
The house I bought as an investment thinking that when I rented it cost heaps hence enjoying work I could help someone and have an asset to sell later. Real estate wanted me to take $200 a week, I insisted on $130, $150 was stabilized as our take. (Much less than anywhere else, a house with a big garden, hoping someone could take advantage with me and both win.. Like triangles on the clew while other mate pulls sheet).
Tenants decided $0 better. 10 years later house worth 30% more. Wasn't a great choice.
I went cruising, renting other house too. He was better but as per arguments and need of a phone, wasn't great. I was working yet it sucked.
Last year or this year Australia was hit with a big drop in house prices, especially east.
Sailing is beautiful, looking at the main, with your ears, your eyes, your feel, many argue that the windward side of the sail is doing the work. I like less pressure, the Lee side. Flow that, the low pressure that flows from there has now given the high pressure front somewhere to shoot. Efficiency using our basic principles, common law.
I haven't a clue what to do neither bro. Sometimes sailing is like thought. My thoughts thanks to someone else. The flow of a sail thanks to a lack of pressure.

Future unknown.. Here is some rough comparisons here to get me into a seaworthy sailing vessel.

Berths public, berths at the local yacht squadron. Approximately same cost.
Hypothesis
Public $1500 per annum.
Squadron $5000 per annum but with a very good knowledge basis amongst peers.
$250 weekly 40 footer as a maintenance kitty.

Or keep house. Custom industrial size garage is built with a very efficient solar array. No cost accounts to live here. Water half complete, if add +1 tank can remove house from mains and drive cost here below zero.
Van ($3000) will convert such to an electric with enough range of my chores and enough grunt to tow yacht.
Yacht. Will fit inside garage. Currently not seaworthy.

I miss sailing man. We know alive when a full length keeler is a skiff; she's the real loose. I'm glad I ride a bicycle to work.
With all due respect. I was ALWAYS last during match racing. Always. But we had fun. We could get more than a fathom on deck at point mast and we laughed ship loads. I used to try and catch our past friend R. U. Human whom skippered 'Nymasis' having schooled with his grandson ' B. A. Human.
I've never had enough, I've been perved on by more men than sailors viewing rigs, I was born during the opening of Tiger Qin tomb; 9 months past Bruce Lee. I've been invited to a career with Australians secret service but didn't want to remove privacy from people although I'm dumb moment not knowing if ok to mention my Human past friend and long time no see friend. Just planning to price standing and running rigging tomorrow (Sunday) because I just realized.. She ain't sea worthy.
I'll go from there and time a system later to skiff something bigger into a swell.
I apologise purr knot know N should such assist you with sailing survival but I'm not that strong.
The last time I was forehand on kite guy wouldn't pull with three turns on a moment seized winch but know one cared because although the modern skiff is a huge tiller advantage; she didn't want to windward. Imagine preventing guy from rubbing the foreskin? No where near as much balance required as a long keel; no where near as loose.

I hope you all win, I'm enjoying doing nothing much until our governments benefit our earth.

Goodnight.

Nathan Christopher Dennis.

[Dennis.G]

We sold the home and moved aboard. When 1st summer came (very hot in Mexico) we left boat in storage to travel North and ended up buying a small lake cottage in upper peninsula of Michigan. So now have a land home, but one much smaller and cheaper than what we started with.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by akprb

...First an interesting follow up question would be "of the 23 who sold all what was your experience five years later?”

This would be a good question. I’d definitely participate in that thread. I’m starting to approach this 5-year threshold, and I still feel like we (my spouse and I) are just getting started. But I am slow in general .

Originally Posted by akprb

As to my two cents I would suggest those who have had "the dream" for years but little experience hold onto their land based home if at all financially possible for at least two years after moving onboard.

This goes along with my advice to not make any major modifications or improvements to your new boat until you have taken her cruising for at least three months.

I’m with you In general I recommend people go slow as they move into the cruising life. Don’t make rash decisions. Learn the skills, and more importantly, learn if you both (if you are a couple) actually like this life.

As my spouse and I were just musing, this ain’t the easiest way to live. But for us — at this point in our lives — it continues to be the best choice.

[contrail]

When I first starting living aboard in the SF area (1982), a "live aboard" meant precisely that. One lived aboard a boat, due to convenience, desire, or necessity. There was no house ashore....maybe a storage locker. Usually, a car. Many who lived aboard eventually went cruising, in some fashion or another. More didn't. Some never left the dock. But, we all lived aboard and shared to a great extent, the same problems, maintenance issues, and other issues, including political. I think that Jim and Ann might well be able to relate!


In my marina, we had company professionals, teachers, accountants, boat maintenance workers, retirees, you name it. We all knew each other by first name and boat name, and we all had to "varnish our teak". Little was hired out, since we enjoyed messing around on boats. Living aboard meant precisely that.



Those of us who went cruising did that, as well. Of course, we still lived aboard, but it was a relatively small subset of the original group. There were also a good number of cruisers who had not previously been live aboards, in the accepted meaning of the term, although they had now become that. There were probably more open ended cruisers, proportionally, than now. Almost no one did the six months on, six months off thing although many took a month or two during whatever the "off season" was, usually hurricane season. Few kept a house. There were no rallies herding folks (often NOT capable, unaided) here and there. You really had to want to go, in order to do so.



I think what changed was a number of things: better international communications along with the advent of the internet, and easier transportation made it more natural to keep one's land ties. Rallies are the epitome of schedules and encouraged the "sabbatical" cruisers. The slew of technological changes, led by GPS, brought many people who previously would not have considered sailing over the horizon, into the mix. Better instrumentation, water makers, better refrigeration, engines, sails and roller furling devices, not to mention better incomes, fed the mix. Add bigger and better marinas and boatyards, on a global scale, and a boat could be somewhat safely "put away" for awhile, although it is still the unattended boats that most easily run into trouble. But, all of a sudden, people kept more closely in touch with "home", maybe more so than with their cruising "families", and could more easily get there, and we saw the six month on, six month off phenomenon proliferate. And everything, everywhere, became more expensive, to match the better incomes of many cruisers.



I think the "fleet" is, on the whole, older and less experienced than previously. Many are already planning for life, after cruising, before they can prod themselves to actually go. And, that future is probably not living aboard. Many former cruisers continued living aboard, or living ashore with the boat close at hand, perhaps filling the "cruising kitty", for another go. The Pardeys, to some extent, would have been such an example.



So, to me, the questions would be 1) How many are live aboards, consistent with the definition I have used. They may or may not cruise, and they may or not have any plans to do so. 2) How many cruise? And, if they do cruise, 3) How many were previously live aboards? And, for those who weren't, 4) How many cruisers are now full time? And, 5) How many have sold their houses, and how many haven't?


I have always divided "live aboards" into several very different categories. There are the marina live aboards. Then, among the cruising live aboards, there are 1) the backpacker live aboards (usually in smaller, simpler boats, often in remote places, living at anchor and generally sharing life with others who are similar, 2) the seasonal live aboards (who are similar to those with summer homes, ashore), 3) the RV live aboards (who go from marina to marina and who are basically tied to an electrical cord. They often develop close land ties in the places they go and don't sail much in between their moves. And then there are the Rally live aboards, who are really on a bucket list sabbatical, sometimes with paid crew, and the tourist, hotel cruisers, who do their cruising on cruise ships. Yes, it's still cruising, in their own minds, which is the only thing that counts. At various times in my life, I have been each of the above and I think they are all worthwhile ways to enjoy the water. But, very different.



For the record, I have lived aboard, in one or another of those scenarios, for 37 years. Four of those were as a commuter cruiser. Fourteen were as a marina liveaboard, albeit with many cruises of up to a month in length. This included being a marina manager. Five years were as a total "cut the cord" liveaboard cruiser, with a few intervals that included living at anchor whilst working ashore. The last fifteen years have been spent living aboard and operating a term charter boat in the Caribbean, mostly the BVi, including both being marina based and anchored out.



But, I never bought or sold a house....maybe someday! And, it has been "all good".




"There are a multitude of variables and considerations that go into the choice of keeping a land home — way too many for a simple poll to cover. This is why I intentionally kept the question as simple as possible.

But sure, interject away .

And keep the votes coming (even if you don’t want to comment). I’m surprised at the near-split. My belief was that most cruisers here kept a land home. The data is suggesting I was wrong — which is great. I follow the data.[/QUOTE]"

[bensolomon]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We own a land apartment in our office building. To me, it doesn’t make financial sense when people think cruising has to be an all or nothing commitment... to sell everything and go. Why sell an appreciating asset (house) in exchange for a depreciating liability (boat)?

Especially, when the few folks who are successful at cruising are so vastly outnumbered by the ones who fail and need to return to a land-based lifestyle.

That is well thought.