Liveaboard - Realistic View

[Bash]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Go for it mate... just remember if you cruise the West Coast stop off at Bash's marina and go over with a 6pack....

Absolutely! PM me when you're getting close. And I'm fine with Keystone Light.

[stuborndancer]

Haha yeah I really do appreciate all the advice. Its great to run into a nice community that enjoys helping others. It feels like its not that common.

Ok so for reference how does this boat listing look?

30 ft. SAILBOAT

Seems like a good deal, especially if you could knock 2k off negotiating. But without getting it surveyed I guess you never know. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I should be watching out for.

[Bash]

It was looking really good until I got to the part about the British Seagull engine.

[stuborndancer]

Lol i'll just do a beer run along the west coast . Its like delivery pizza....just its beer.... and takes a heck of a lot longer to get there. Haha

[stuborndancer]

I was wondering about that. I almost do want a outboard rather than a inboard, but I know nothing about that engine.

[u4ea32]

I assume you actually want to go sailing, to experience the adventures on the sea. If all you want to do is live like a hobo but on a boat, then ignore this post.

----

I suggest you do the following:

1) Take those ASA classes, so you are not totally ignorant.

Still like it? Then...

2) Rent a few little sailboats, like a dinghy or a Shields, and sail around a lake or bay until you feel comfortable.

Still like it? Then...

3) Somehow, go sailing with someone in ROUGH conditions. See if you get sea sick. Being sea sick is MISERABLE. Many, many people find out after a couple of weeks or months that they do get sea sick, and they just can't handle it.

Still like it? Then...

4) Fly to Antigua in March or April. Take a taxi to English Harbour. Stay at Libby Nicholson's crash pad (ask around, you'll find it in 5 minutes). Get on a boat heading to Europe: hundreds of yachts leave the Caribbean in late March or April (end of Caribbean season) and head to the Mediterranean. All need unskilled deckhands. Don't expect to be paid. Note that you MUST have an airline ticket from Antigua back home or you won't get out of the Antigua airport. Make sure its a ticket on a major carrier (like Delta) and not a fly-by-night operation (like Spirit), and make sure its a refundable ticket. Yes, lots more money, but you will need to keep changing that ticket as you travel around. When you get to France or wherever, you will need a ticket from France back to the USA in order to get off the boat, and you can change that Delta ticket once you get there.

Missed April? Then in September go to the South of France and do the Med->Caribbean direction.

Still like it? Then...

5) Keep sailing around on other people's boats. After awhile, you will actually get paid. Stick with it, and you can make more money than any of your friends who stayed at home!

Still like it? Then...

6) Once you are ready for your own boat, you'll know. And as you travel all over, you will find really good boats for really good deals. Lots and lots of people spend $$$$ and then set off, and a few thousand miles later, they decide they really don't care for the lifestyle, and they try and sell their boats in Trinidad, Panama, Antigua, ... Some of those boats are really good condition, very well equipped, and the owner (possibly getting a divorce) really just wants to bail.

What you really don't want to do is buy a lousy (read cheap) boat. It is MUCH cheaper to buy a well equipped boat in great condition, than buy a cheap boat and get it equipped and in good condition. And you really don't want to go anywhere on a poorly equipped boat in poor condition. By "well equipped" I do NOT mean something loaded with everything advertised in the magazines. I mean a boat that has all the stuff you actually NEED to be SAFE. Its just that even the raw minimum of that stuff is a lot of expensive stuff: good standing rigging, running rigging, sails, anchor+rode, weather gear">foul weather gear, steering that won't fail, and a hull+deck that does not leak.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

I assume you actually want to go sailing, to experience the adventures on the sea. If all you want to do is live like a hobo but on a boat, then ignore this post.

----

I suggest you do the following:

1) Take those ASA classes, so you are not totally ignorant.

Still like it? Then...

2) Rent a few little sailboats, like a dinghy or a Shields, and sail around a lake or bay until you feel comfortable.

Still like it? Then...

3) Somehow, go sailing with someone in ROUGH conditions. See if you get sea sick. Being sea sick is MISERABLE. Many, many people find out after a couple of weeks or months that they do get sea sick, and they just can't handle it.

Still like it? Then...

4) Fly to Antigua in March or April. Take a taxi to English Harbour. Stay at Libby Nicholson's crash pad (ask around, you'll find it in 5 minutes). Get on a boat heading to Europe: hundreds of yachts leave the Caribbean in late March or April (end of Caribbean season) and head to the Mediterranean. All need unskilled deckhands. Don't expect to be paid. Note that you MUST have an airline ticket from Antigua back home or you won't get out of the Antigua airport. Make sure its a ticket on a major carrier (like Delta) and not a fly-by-night operation (like Spirit), and make sure its a refundable ticket. Yes, lots more money, but you will need to keep changing that ticket as you travel around. When you get to France or wherever, you will need a ticket from France back to the USA in order to get off the boat, and you can change that Delta ticket once you get there.

Missed April? Then in September go to the South of France and do the Med->Caribbean direction.

Still like it? Then...

5) Keep sailing around on other people's boats. After awhile, you will actually get paid. Stick with it, and you can make more money than any of your friends who stayed at home!

Still like it? Then...

6) Once you are ready for your own boat, you'll know. And as you travel all over, you will find really good boats for really good deals. Lots and lots of people spend $$$$ and then set off, and a few thousand miles later, they decide they really don't care for the lifestyle, and they try and sell their boats in Trinidad, Panama, Antigua, ... Some of those boats are really good condition, very well equipped, and the owner (possibly getting a divorce) really just wants to bail.

What you really don't want to do is buy a lousy (read cheap) boat. It is MUCH cheaper to buy a well equipped boat in great condition, than buy a cheap boat and get it equipped and in good condition. And you really don't want to go anywhere on a poorly equipped boat in poor condition. By "well equipped" I do NOT mean something loaded with everything advertised in the magazines. I mean a boat that has all the stuff you actually NEED to be SAFE. Its just that even the raw minimum of that stuff is a lot of expensive stuff: good standing rigging, running rigging, sails, anchor+rode, foul weather gear, steering that won't fail, and a hull+deck that does not leak.

Good option,,,, wot he jus said..

[joey69]

Originally Posted by stuborndancer

30 ft. SAILBOAT

Seems like a good deal, especially if you could knock 2k off negotiating. But without getting it surveyed I guess you never know. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I should be watching out for.

need to replace that motor with a 9.9 yamaha.

[beau]

This is difficult for me to comment on because I am of a different generation.
However most women will not put up with "camping" type conditions for very long.
I have seen men do it, that is, buy a cheap boat and live off biscuits etc.

In my situation i had to spend $150,000 -$200,000 to build a boat that a women would want to live onboard. That includes ICE.

I know a guy who bought a boat 43 ft mono and ran out of money, he is living a miserable life, he lives on the hook, and watches TV all day, what is the point of that. He can't sell the boat because he will lose heaps.

To cruise, you have to be able to fix things, everything.
The sooner you learn marine electronics, marine plumbing,fuel systems, motors the better.
This is not an easy life but is very rewarding, but in my opinion you do need money to enjoy it.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by foamcore

Don't buy a beater, not for your first one. Get something you can use out of the box. You can learn about how a boat works on a good one just as well as a beat down one and have a lot more fun.

+1

Easy to get sucked into buying more than you can afford by trading poorer condition for bigger size.........and as first time boat owner not in a position to make a sound judgement on what you are looking at (hell, even after a few years / boats easy to get that wrong!). Paying another (i.e. a Surveyor) to tell you is not the same as knowing yourself - unless they have agreed to pay the bills

Lots of good advice on here Easy to start off on the wrong foot and make your learning curve harder / more expensive / less fun that it could be..........but nothing that money, time and use of the noodle can't correct

That boat with the Seagull o/b? Don't know the boat model (US market) but looks like it would originally have had an inboard - the o/b is on because the inboard went pop (maybe it's there? maybe not) and it is a cheap fix - but a) nowhere near as good as an inboard, especially on a 30 footer and b) knocks the resale value (and anyone to buy!) out of the boat especially coupled with age (and likely related condition - even if perfectly useable) - as a first boat I would give it a miss, will be married to it - and sooner or later you will want to sell.

Nothing wrong with an o/b powered boat, if designed to have an o/b (and some big advantages - particularly on cost when they go wrong) - but size wise looking at a max of around 26 foot. BTW some boats were designed to have either and o/b or an i/b (at least over this part of the world).

In your shoes and with a lake on doorstep - even though the YC club at the wrong end - I would look to get something small a dayboat or weekender that could go on a trailer (if not able to moor your side of the lake) - or even a sailing dinghy ...........you will learn a lot about sailing with a dinghy (doesn't have to be about racing) and all of which useful on bigger boats - and in some respects easier / more useful to learn on - kinda like riding a motorbike vs a car And being Captain of a Sailing Dink still teaches you a lot about being Captain (especially that get things wrong and you is swimming ashore ) - depending on what you buy could even end up as a tender to your bigger boat (when you do eventually buy)............not to say can't mix up with YC and other people's boats and training course as well.

Anyway, Bon Voyage! Your plans do not sound as half arsed as some that turn up here

[joey69]

DOJ has it right. I am a rookie,but I think you are better off buying the least amount of boat that you can afford.You can find good deals on boats right now.A "good deal" to me is not always a good deal to others.Find someone who knows boats and get them to go look at a potential boat with you.A 28'-30' boat with a hull in good shape for around $5k can be a "good deal".It may need a little work,but by the time you get it seaworthy,you will know it inside and out.You do not have to spend 200k to have a nice boat.Unless you want a gold-plated toilet.

[LauderBoy]

Originally Posted by stuborndancer

Haha yeah I really do appreciate all the advice. Its great to run into a nice community that enjoys helping others. It feels like its not that common.

Ok so for reference how does this boat listing look?

30 ft. SAILBOAT

Seems like a good deal, especially if you could knock 2k off negotiating. But without getting it surveyed I guess you never know. Just wondering if there is anything glaring I should be watching out for.

The lack of a main engine to me sorta of screams "hack job" in that it was replaced with an outboard. Would really make me wonder what else was patchy on that boat.

If you can save up to the 10-13k price range you'll have a lot more options for 30ft sail ready boats. You'll always have things you want to improve on a boat, but I'd avoid a project boat. They don't make sense financially, really. The money you put into a boat on upgrades and fixes don't increase the value of the boat on a 1:1 basis. So you're better off buying a boat that a previous owner got up to just about where you want it, assuming you can afford that.

For "good value" boats, 28ft is probably around 8-10k, 30ft is 10-14k, and 32ft boats run around 16-20k. Those were in Florida, mid 70 to mid 80's boats. Any price less than that would always make me wonder "okay, what's wrong with it."

For example, my boat is a solid 1982 Pearson 323 I got for 19.5k. It has new sails and a 1994 Yanmar diesel. No blisters, looks clean, everything it has works, just no real electronics outside a VHF. Now I'm customizing things on her for my needs. 26 inch low power use TV, composting head, long range wifi. I'm looking at an arch to attach solar panels. Replacing all the lights with LED lights. I'm living on her very comfortably at dock while I do that.

I spent 6 months looking at boats before I bought her and she was a boat I had looked at in month 2, the price just came down to my level over time.

You always have projects, but you probably want to avoid a boat that needs major refits. Things get expensive fast.

You're probably going to want to create The Plan. Where you live now doesn't work for the boat life and when you move aboard, you'll still need income. You might consider saving up the cash you need, learning what you can up North, then transition to a coastal area where you can find work close to a live aboard marina. Then look at boats, buy one in decent shape, move her home and get her up to speed for anchor life while you have a job and the income to spend on her.

[Mark Johnson]

Before I met my wife 20 years ago, I lived the single guy's "anchored out lifestyle" for years in Key West. I had no health or boat insurance, but was responsible, and ALWAYS paid my bills. I did have ONE occasion where my boat drug in a storm, and I was not there. Although I was not "legally liable", (act of God and all that), I voluntarily spent several hundred of my dollars and two weeks, repairing the boat that my boat drug into. In the end, it was made right. It was fortunate that I was a skilled boatwright, having built my own boats! I now carry liability ins. only, as my marina requires it. This is so cheep, that it only makes sense to have it.

The "other guys" liability insurance means nothing to me, because only I can fix my boat to my standards in the event of damage, and insurance companies will not pay me to fix my own boat! Go figure?

I lived really cheep, but consider... there is paying for dinghy dockage and a spot for my bicycle... That was $100 / month. Showers on land cost too. You have to PAY for water, and garbage disposal too! (forget rain catchment... aint gonna happen). You would need a BIG boat with a BIG tank. NEVER land your dink just anywhere... That's called trespassing!

If you have a beautiful boat, anchored for that normal 60 knot blow in the summer, use the pumpout boat, and pay for ALL of the above services, you can live for perhaps half that of a "small apartment style" land life. It still takes money! If you don't do or have all the money it takes, for ALL of your services, you will be pegged as a "dirt bag", which is hard on you, and all of the rest of us too, because from a distance the landfolks can't tell one from the other.

In fact, the treatment I received while I lived anchored out in Fl, (in a totally responsible manner), is why I don't live there anymore. The thing is, that's where the mild winters are! Catch 22...

Just trying to be realistic here... Hope this helps, Mark

PS, below are my two YOUNG single guy's anchored out boats...

[zeehag]

that pearson should have been born with a small volvo or 1 cyl yannie engine. shouldnt NEED an engine-- they sail well. goood solid boat. seagull engines took normandy. so they work once then dump--i have seen them last many years and i joke with the brit next door -- he found his on a norman beach, i say.. we both laugh.

[stuborndancer]

Lots of good advice, thanks guys. Yeah realistically I was planning on spending between 10-15k on a boat, and was planning on trying to find a 28-30 ideally. I actually have about 13k saved at the moment, but wont even consider taking off on this adventure until I have training, and experience on other peoples boats. Along with a lot of the skills I hope to pick up.

Because of the money I have saved at the moment, and how cheap boats seem to be selling these days, is why I was wondering if looking for a boat at the moment might be a better rout, rather than waiting until I felt ready to take off onto the water.

The buying a boat that was well taken care off and ready to sail does make sense as far as cost. Its usually more expensive to buy repairs and additions than buy a completed whole. I am hoping to find someone to at least look at some boats with to get an idea of what to look for.

This is going to be bit more difficult than normal having my home and job in a place that is completely land locked haha.