Liveaboards vs Locals

[miatapaul]

as far as live-aboard RVers all you have to do is drive by a Wal-Mart at night. We seem to have some folks that seem to be in small van based RVs that move from Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart. One in my area is kind of sad as it is an older couple and the RV looks barely road worthy. I don't think they are in it out of choice and seem to be having a hard time keeping up with there RV.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by miatapaul

as far as live-aboard RVers all you have to do is drive by a Wal-Mart at night. We seem to have some folks that seem to be in small van based RVs that move from Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart. One in my area is kind of sad as it is an older couple and the RV looks barely road worthy. I don't think they are in it out of choice and seem to be having a hard time keeping up with there RV.

I can't think of a better use for a Wal-Mart parking lot.

[Liam Wald]

Prop 13 in california locks the property tax at the purchase price of the home not at 1% of the assesed value.
I live in Santa Cruz County and pay 1.3% plus special assesments bringing it closer to 1.5%.

Santa Cruz County has just done a re-assessment of home values based upon the current reduction in values. Home purchased between 2004 and 2008 have been re-assesed at an average of 40% below the selling prices and property taxes have been reduced accordingly.

Median home price here is around $500k.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Prop 13 in california locks the property tax at the purchase price of the home not at 1% of the assesed value.
I live in Santa Cruz County and pay 1.3% plus special assesments bringing it closer to 1.5%.

Santa Cruz County has just done a re-assessment of home values based upon the current reduction in values. Home purchased between 2004 and 2008 have been re-assesed at an average of 40% below the selling prices and property taxes have been reduced accordingly.

Median home price here is around $500k.

and that has what effect on the boating in santa cruz???? are folks running out to buy boats to live on board??? are they sellin gtheir boats to live on land?? have the property taxes paid on the boats stayed stagnant or risen???? the boaters DO pay as much or more property taxes as do homeowners--look it up...we pay on th boat, the cement block mooring the boat, the dirt under the marina slip---go look it up.......

[alaska pirate]

Interesting to read of the different situations around the country.

Currently I am a liveaboard although not a local here in Sitka. I don't know of any change in numbers as I've only been here a few weeks. The City and Borough of Sitka charges a liveaboard fee to cover water, sewer, and garbage in addition to slip fees and electric power. I have experienced no animosity on the part of either the Harbor staff or the locals I have met.

I do have experience as a liveaboard local in Valdez for 9 years. There was some discontent from some of the property owners who felt the liveaboards were not paying their fair share. In response, the City Council instituted a liveaboard fee. It seemed to allay the gripes as I never experienced any ill will in my time. I will say that the Harbor staff was very appreciative of the presence of liveaboards as we served to keep an eye on things such as boats in danger of sinking, fire, theft, and other situations. In answer to the OP, I saw no material increase in numbers of liveaboards since the end of 2007 until my departure last summer.

[sailorboy1]

One of things that as boaters we diss is that the owners of the expensive waterfront homes complaining about the boats ruining their view. We talk about this as being wrong/unreasonable on the home owners part when we talk about the efforts to 'bann" boaters. Wonder what would happen if we flipped it and said that that owners of expensive boats have to moor/anchor across from slums and falling down industrial parks etc.?

I feel most of these types of battles are caused from a small few that give everyone a bad name. It's kind of like saying you are "trailer trash" because you live in a trailer park! But I've seen some REAL nice trailer parks (and in FL were they don't like cruisers anchoring).

[tomperanteau]

Actually the view is not theirs or ours. The view belongs to everyone and that includes the liveaboards AND derelicts.

The wife and I, although we are not currently liveaboards, we intend to be. We are both professionals (I the semi-retired engineer, and she is the attorney), have been hit by the economy to where we have been forced to make the decision of either working until we are in our 90's, or making plans to live aboard our sailboat within the next few years and semi-retiring early. This choice was not difficult to make. We will retire with a minimal stash of what is needed for trade (gold, silver, staples) and will skip up and down the western coastline.

Anyone else working towards this?

Tom

[osirissail]

There is always a surge in "live-aboards" during an economic crisis/collapse, especially in a few very expensive geographical locations in the country. When forced out of your "land castle" your choice is the nearest "under a bridge" tent city or on to a floating boat. Although in Miami, Florida there were many living on boats that were sunk, but in only a foot or two of water so the interior was above sea level. Personal pride and ego generally makes the choice of the floating home better than the "under the bridge" tent.
- - So there seems to be two groups (maybe more) of "live-aboards" - those that actually cruise and go places; and those that cannot afford to live on land or do not want to live under a bridge. I know from friends in "ritsy" condo's that the "short time" anchoring of cruising sailboats is not a problem as the boat is gone in a few days or a week or two. It is the "permanent" (over a month) anchoring of "live-aboards" that is offensive to the land condo/house owner.
- - Just like living in a house, we all accumulate "stuff". But in a house we can put the stuff in a closet or extra bedroom or attic or where-ever. But on a boat those types of spaces fill up fast and the "stuff" ends up on deck. Eventually, you have a boat buried in "extra stuff" all over its deck in plain view of the land condo/home owner. Day after day, week after week, month after month, he looks out at the float junkyard and gets rather upset. Then you get the push to "get rid" of the derelicts, which because of the USA anti-discrimination laws means they have to target all boats, not just the junkyard boats.
- - Florida many years ago passed a rather intelligent boating law that actually was able to "classify" a difference between the junkyard boats and honest cruising boats. They did this by defining "live-aboards" as any boat that has not moved in 30 days from its current anchorage spot. Simply keeping moving or at least moving across the bay every few weeks exempted you from the law that then required functioning holding tanks and MSD's and the ability to "pump out". So they were able to target the non-moving junkyard boats and leave the honest cruisers alone.
- - The mooring fields versus anchorage is a further refinement and currently under siege in courts and State legislatures.

[biltong]

You are quite right. During my 12 years as a live-aboard, comments would indicate envy during perfect weather and pity during the storms. They could never understand that I just prefered to live on a yacht, period!

[Hudson Force]

At my present location in Florida the marina here that allows liveaboards is 45% empty. It seems a nearby condo development isn't selling and they are renting their slps at a reasonable rate for liveaboards too. There's also slips available in downtown Jacksonville. Here in NE Florida, St Johns River area, there hasn't been this great availabilty of slips in the past thirty years. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

[bloodhunter]

sneuman,
We have a number of live aboards at my marina (Herrington Harbour South) . As far as I know there have never been any conflicts. We had one new live aboard on our dock but that had nothing to do with the economy. I've also heard that there has bee an uptick in live-aboards at Port Annapolis marina in Eastport.
(Don't mean to change the subject but we lived in Fair Oaks in Severna park for 20 years. Assume you're at Magothy Marina. Actually kept my boat there until we bought the house in S.P., Now with the kids all gone we've moved to a new townhouse in Baltimore.)
Azi

[sailvayu]

I think if the economy has anything to do with more people moving on to their boats it is because of the stress it causes in marriages. In my case and in the marina I am in I see more live boards because the marriage is on the rocks. The bad economy has pushed it over the edge. The husband moves onto the boat (worked for Tiger woods lol) I think in most cases it is a short term thing but not all. And sometimes short term turns into long term. A lot of us had the dream of living on board and due to additional stress things fell apart at home giving an excuse to do what we really wanted to. In many cases the boat is still close to home so offers a good place to stay and remain close to kids and family. I have not seen or know of anyone that has moved onto the boat because they lost there house though, I think the boat would go before the house. There maybe some who had the dream and the loss of a job just help them expedite things but I think that is more an exception.Just my take on it.

Fair Winds

[wildshore]

The south Florida thing is a weird replay of the Key Biscayne Stiltsville controversy a few years ago...now they're trying to preserve those structures as historic artifacts.....

http://www.key-biscayne.com/kb/stilt...allery/1.shtml

[Seahunter]

In southern California it's a big problem. Live-aboards are accused of everything from dumping sewage, basic water quality, parking and a general nuisance. From Los Angeles to San Diego the percentage is 5% of total slips are available for live-aboards; the bigger marinas with upgraded facilities are maxed out at 10%. There is a waiting list at most marinas, (up to 2 years) with length restrictions minimum and maximum) and anything over 60' just won't happen because of the rarity of 60' live-aboard slips. Once a marina okays your live-aboard status the county then surveys your boat so as they can issue you with the coveted live-aboard license, which you may or may not pass.
After the housing market crash, many people flocked to the idea of boat living, but with boat payments (if you have them) and live-aboard slip fees, many found it more expensive than paying rent or a mortgage. For those that try the sneak-aboard route, they will find an eviction notice with their monthly invoice.

[pwratch]

My wife and I have lived aboard our 41 tri in Newport Beach, CA for the last ten years or so. No real conflicts in the senses of official or local hostility. Some people think we're weird but, then again, some of those same folks lost their homes to foreclosure in part because they wanted more than they needed and were willing to borrow to get it. Different strokes as they say. We have made a number of friends of folks that live on shore directly opposite our mooring and we all laugh about the differences in our approaches to life. On the official side, there are rules to contend with such as upper limits on the total number of liveaboards allowed in the harbor (something like ten percent of the total number of moorings) but I don't think it's ever been reached. Not sure of what, if any, policy may apply to the many slips that ring the harbor, some private and some city controlled. A few years back requirements were established for having sanitary systems inspected and pumpout logs maintained, requiring an annual inspection. Your boat must be navigable i.e., demonstrate the ability to leave the moorings and so forth (no scabbed on outboard rigs allowed). It's been zero problem. The city and county staffs (it's jurisdiction-ally complicated here) have been polite and professional, even out-of-their-way helpful, for the most part so no complaints there. They also got pretty aggressive about cleaning out derelicts that were either abandoned outright or serving as placeholders for the rather expensive mooring permits (you have to "own" the mooring to legally live aboard). There are some other rules that, once met, cease to be much bother, at least to us. If I have to register a complaint (for balance ya know) it would have to be that this whole area turns into a zoo in the summer as EVERYONE comes to the beach. Parking can be a nightmare but you learn the obscure spots and time your essential trips into town (anywhere east of Pacific Coast Highway). Fall, winter and spring are pretty idyllic in terms of crowds (none).