Looking for the right boat

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by knockabout

you may find a boat that can handle the trip in your price range /without the stove and zoo/sell the zoo and stove catch a buss to your destination /still have grub stake to re,establish/ don't carry the axe into the buss depot

Haha, I have gotten a lot of strange looks over the years.
I did take some axes and some of my handmade knives on public transit once.

I don't have a final destination really. My problem, as several have noted is I'm trying to take too much stuff and livestock with me on the trip.

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by Land Cruiser

Adam,

What you are proposing is an interesting and I am sure that you are not the first, I have never heard of anyone trying this route, and there may be a reason for that.

I've heard of a few animals on board, and for quite a lot longer than I hope to have them onboard. I would be taking more than I've heard of though.

Originally Posted by Shrew

The woodstove is an interesting idea, but as others have raised, there is a great deal of weight, and storage space that would be needed. To re-supply said stove in exotic locales raises some serious questions. Where are you going to find the wood in the first place, as lands are either public or privately owned lands.

I am concerned about the weight as well, not so much about the storage space. I kind of anticipate collecting as I need it. I could pretty easily acquire old pallets, and dead fall.

Originally Posted by Shrew

Privately held land, well, that is another can of worms, and can be very dangerous going on to someone else's land to basically steal, and trust me, can get you shot.

I never intend on stealing or trespassing on private land.
Asking for some or trading for it, seems reasonable enough to me.
Collecting from public land or in the back country would be fine with me.

Originally Posted by Shrew

Bringing such things as wood aboard also raise issues with the critters you don't want, bugs and termites, ants, and the like. Many cruisers when buying supplies remove such things seemingly benign as cardboard before bringing it on board, for good reason. Wood will be 10 times worse.

I hadn't thought of that, although I don't know of many insects that infest trees in temperate locales. Often the insect diversity in these locations is quite low. While I will be in some tropical locales for a significant portion of the journey, I will strive to keep insects off the boat, maybe by collecting wood as I use it. The bugs can't infest the boat if they are immediately tossed into a fire. That would solve a lot of the storage concerns too.

Originally Posted by Shrew

Bringing livestock into a foreign country is also a huge no-no in many cases, or just plain very difficult. If the letter of the law is not followed in some countries it may involve seizure and forfeiture of the boat, or fines, or just plain bribery..

I'm aware. That is going to a tough one. The solution I have in mind, would probably upset people, so I'm going to leave that one alone.

Originally Posted by Shrew

When you talk about settling down in a region, where exactly do you plan to farm and raise livestock? Finding a kindred spirit who will allow you to come in and farm and raise livestock on their property will be VERY hard to do, you just can't sail in, drop anchor and expect to be able to farm the land...try that on my land and you would be escorted off poste haste.

I already have several interested communes, and private farms between Vancouver and my first destination in Alaska.
People are fairly kind and generous in my experience.
Doesn't hurt that I offer my labor, and to share my produce, livestock that I raise while I'm there.

Originally Posted by Shrew

Between having to erect fencing, supplying water from some source, and being able to feed yourself at the same time, this takes on a serious workload, if it's even possible.

It will be a hell of a lot of work, I know. There are a few things that seem like they might be impossible, mostly already noted in this thread.

Originally Posted by Shrew

You also have to consider how will you be able to get this livestock to shore? Are you considering more than chickens and goats?

Goats, chickens, rabbits, and at least one dog, hopefully two. I've been looking for boats with a shallow draft that I could get close to shore with.
I know now, that the weight issue would be a problem with most of those boats with a shallow draft. Maybe I'll have to use a small rural marina.

Originally Posted by Shrew

Basically what you are proposing is exactly what the Pilgrims did in Jamestown when they finally arrived. They could not sustain themselves, even with the addition of active hunting to farming. Many died of starvation and they eventually turned to cannibalism in a couple of cases.

You are right, that's exactly what I plan on doing, and for similar reasons as their descendents eventually sought their independence. I am aware of the possibility of dying on this trip, but I expect things to get pretty bad in the civilized world in the next few years, and I would rather miss that and give it my best shot well away from all that.

Originally Posted by Shrew

May I suggest that you re-consider the farm animal route, and look more into living off the land, or in this case, the sea. They have already been fed and watered, no need to do all that work, and waiting for animals such as goats to get big enough to eat/breed, and they will start to look good once hunger sets in.

Disregard the religious overtones. Click the link, and scroll through the list of death. I need to provide the food. I can't rely on it being there on the end of the fishing line.
Mass Animal Deaths 2016 - Updated List of Worldwide Die Offs

Originally Posted by Land Cruiser

I wont even get into the appropriate boat aspect, because the aforementioned issues will need resolving before you can more accurately set parameters for your boat needs.

Good luck, feel free to reply back with your thoughts, and any research you have done on this type of lifestyle on a boat.

I'm thinking the goats might have to make the trip to Prince Rupert from the breeder. Then, I could make several trips, one or two goats at a time from PR to the location I'll be at.

I might have to find a marine woodstove for the boat, and use the 36" in a cabin whenever I get around to building one. I've been looking at boats that already have a woodstove for that reason.

Thanks for the information.

[UNCIVILIZED]

For boats, plenty of people have used catamarans for what you're proposing. Both nowadays, as well as going back several thousand years. All throughout the Pacific, as well as in the less developed parts of N. & S. America. And probably a lot of other places as well.

I know that one guy had a big Wharram, & used it as a trading & cargo transport vessel. To even include using it to carry refrigerators to trade, or that people had ordered & needed delivered. So it is possible.

Like you're running into, if the idea's not main stream, & super commercialized, then there's a lot of resistance to it. Mostly as big companies can't profit from such. And people have lost a lot of ingenuity, sadly. Plus, forcing folks to think isn't alway popular, given how comfort zones work. Just look at the reception that Hippies, Vagabonds, & Gypsies get, even in our more 'liberal & enlightened' times.

For other boat ideas, you might also look at "alternative designs". Such as those by Bolger, Benford (design group), etc. Including those with bilge keels, virtually no keels, but having ballast plates or internal ballast, & bilge keels along with. There's a lot of variety out there if one looks.
Particularly in metal, or plywood boats. Mostly home built types. And at times one has to hunt for them, but if you know where to look, there are lots of options & opportunities.


As to the wood issue, I wouldn't sweat it. Unless you're in a super cold climate, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding enough. As it does grow on trees, plus plenty of it gets thrown away by western society, so...
You may however, run into issues with the stove's exhaust. As, for example, there are small solid fuel stoves on a few of the J-boats (like Endeavor), & when the stove's lit, there's a designated crewman who ensures that no embers land on, or ignite anything important. Like sails. Even when not underway.

Edit: Have you considered using coal or charcoal for fuel as well? Especially as if you spend any amount of time on shore, you can make the latter yourself. And it goes without saying, but you can burn almost anything for heat in a wood stove... even manure. Though such does have drawbacks.


Food wise, the sea is pretty rich. Between fish, kelp, & everything which grows in the tide zone. Whole cultures live on such, so if one's industrious... The key issue is likely to be variety in one's diet. But if you can trap, hunt, harvest, & trade, then you're good. Just keep a low profile.


Also, there's lots of info out there on seasteading. And more folks than one would think have done it, are doing it. Though some things, such as boat maint. & sailing consumables may be a bit problematic, long term. So knowing how to fit out, & keep up a boat using older tech. & methods would be key. Especially gear, & techniques which are older than most of us here on the forums. It would probably be great stuff to have & know how to work on/build.

Anyway, good luck. Such ideas do make one think. Which to me is stimulating. Though it's a threat to some, sadly. As noted. And hopefully my thinking aloud on the ideas is helpful.


PS: Some of the Wharrams, & other alternative type boats are designed with built in fire pits & for 'primitive' cooking. And from there it's not too big a jump to using the same for heating, if you're industrious. Though it would perhaps be a bit labor intensive.

[Bulawayo]

Originally Posted by Adam041987

There are alternatives, such as communes, sharing private farmland, paying rent in livestock and produce, bumming of crown land (technically illegal, but so is a lot of stuff that I am going to be doing, so why stop there), really the only limitations are the ones we put on ourselves, and those that we accept from our corrupt fascist institutions.

Oh goodness Adam, I had some empathy until you went onto the delusional political rant. Fascist institutions indeed! Sounds as though you should go farming in N.Korea and then you'll appreciate the Western lifestyle that allows you to not only express yourself but actually put them into practice. Im out of here.

[SV Siren]

Adam, please take note of peoples concerns, they are pretty well founded. What you propose can probably be done, but you should never put your life at risk to do it. I have actually been amazed at the seriousness of people replies, and suggestions, as what you are proposing to do is very out of the norm, and that is ok.

You seem very intent on doing everything your way, and I will not argue that, as you seem to rebuff most everyones thoughts/suggestions on the subject.

My only request is that you follow up and continue to post on this thread as you move forward, as quite possibly others may wish to follow in your footsteps and they could learn from both the negative and positive experiences that you encounter.

I will stop offering advise, and my thoughts, but will love to see how this plays out.

I'm outta here for now......

[SSgtPitt]

UNCIVILIZED makes sense in his "alternative design" boats. If you tied enough logs together you could take the entire farm with you and if you're handy enough, make your own wood burning fp.
Whatever you end up doing, most of us would like to hear about it. Start a blog so we can follow along. Listen to reason too, as I'd like to follow the story long enough to see you pull a full season wherever you end up.
And stop responding to the angry people......they only distract you from the task at hand, both here on this forum and in life.

[rlynch818]

I may be new here, but it's nearly impossible for me to distinguish between a real post and someone posting just get a response, and a laugh...

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

For boats.... So it is possible.

Awesome, thank you for the info provided.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Like you're running into, if the idea's not main stream, & super commercialized, then there's a lot of resistance to it. ....Just look at the reception that Hippies, Vagabonds, & Gypsies get, even in our more 'liberal & enlightened' times.

I am no stranger to going against the mainstream, and have come to expect negative criticism and discouragement. That's ok, I don't need everyone's approval. There has been a lot of good info shared, for which, I am very grateful.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

For other boat ideas, you might also look at "alternative designs"..... there are lots of options & opportunities.

I have previously thought about plywood boats. I'll do as you suggest, and have a look for the alternative boat designs.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You may however, run into issues with the stove's exhaust.....

I hadn't thought of that either. I'll try to set it up so that the exhaust is well away from the sails. Maybe I will extend the flue, or install a removable manifold to ensure it burns completely before leaving the flue.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Edit: Have you considered using coal or charcoal for fuel as well?

I hadn`t, no. I suppose that would solve the insect infestation issue. I`ll keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Food wise, the sea is pretty rich...

I'm not to worried about the food. Pretty sure I'll be ok, even if there is mass animal death happening all over.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Also, there's lots of info out there on seasteading. And more folks than one would think have done it, are doing it. Though some things, such as boat maint. & sailing consumables may be a bit problematic, long term. So knowing how to fit out, & keep up a boat using older tech. & methods would be key. Especially gear, & techniques which are older than most of us here on the forums. It would probably be great stuff to have & know how to work on/build.

That is something that is pretty important to me, but I haven't found very much information about it. I suppose I haven't done very thorough research on that aspect of it. If anyone has any books they would recommend on maintaining and fitting out a boat with older techniques, I'd definitely be interested. I sort of anticipated scavenging for supplies, or working part time at a boat yard until they start chipping people.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Anyway, good luck. Such ideas do make one think. Which to me is stimulating. Though it's a threat to some, sadly. As noted. And hopefully my thinking aloud on the ideas is helpful.

Thank you for all the information, it has been very helpful.

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

PS: Some of the Wharrams, & other alternative type boats are designed with built in fire pits & for 'primitive' cooking. And from there it's not too big a jump to using the same for heating, if you're industrious. Though it would perhaps be a bit labor intensive.

I am definitely going to take a closer look at the wharrams.

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by Bulawayo

Oh goodness Adam, I had some empathy until you went onto the delusional political rant. Fascist institutions indeed! Sounds as though you should go farming in N.Korea and then you'll appreciate the Western lifestyle that allows you to not only express yourself but actually put them into practice. Im out of here.

You should ask questions when you don't understand something, not shut down the conversation. Think as you like, I don't need to change your mind.
You won't understand the how and why of the pain and suffering that you are going to endure, and will turn to the government to fix it.

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by Land Cruiser

Adam, please take note of peoples concerns, they are pretty well founded. What you propose can probably be done, but you should never put your life at risk to do it. I have actually been amazed at the seriousness of people replies, and suggestions, as what you are proposing to do is very out of the norm, and that is ok.

You seem very intent on doing everything your way, and I will not argue that, as you seem to rebuff most everyones thoughts/suggestions on the subject.

I've refined my strategy for shipping animals, as close to my destination in Alaska as I can get. I've acknowledged the weight concerns, the concerns about pests, risk of damage from embers. I have expressed the intent of considering getting a smaller stove for the boat, and explained my strategies for managing the issues people have suggested. I haven't just accepted everything that people have said as the only way this could work.

Originally Posted by Land Cruiser

My only request is that you follow up and continue to post on this thread as you move forward, as quite possibly others may wish to follow in your footsteps and they could learn from both the negative and positive experiences that you encounter.

I will stop offering advise, and my thoughts, but will love to see how this plays out.

I'm outta here for now......

I will try to keep this thread updated.
I might do a youtube channel for `Girl, The Adventure Dog`, to show her perspective of our adventures.

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by rlynch818

I may be new here, but it's nearly impossible for me to distinguish between a real post and someone posting just get a response, and a laugh...

I`m serious. It doesn`t really matter if you don`t think so, I have received the advice I needed. There are lots of different ways to live, besides the mainstream. I`m sick of living as our culture expects.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Regarding Seasteading, it's been a while, but I've read both of the below books. My neighbor of many years owned a large bookstore in a nautical town, so my information access was pretty much unlimited. Miss that place! The town & the book store.
https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Steading-.../dp/0595387586
https://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Farm-...1M6NJ57ZJACA0N

You'd probably be doing yourself a favor if you read Annie Hill's book also. She & her husband build an "alternative" boat, fairly inexpensively. It was designed by the Benford Design Group. And they cruised quite extensively on what most consider to be pocket change.
https://www.amazon.com/Voyaging-Smal...EMVAX2GRRESK9W

Their boat was junk rigged, & such boats tend to have much cheaper operating costs than do standard rigs. Albeit at a performance cost. Though they're worth a look, particularly as many of the folks who own them are fond of alternative solutions to things, & more interesting life styles.
Annie Hill also has a blog now, though I haven't read it in any depth. Voyaging with Annie Hill
And there's a junk rigged sailing organization as well The Junk Rig Association - HOME

Also, there are plenty of other people out there sailing the world in a pretty non-commercialized fashion. Such as in this blog Not all who wander....are lost
Their are of course, lots of others too. Though the best stuff is probably 'discovered' by doing it, much like anything else. And having a mentor at times probably couldn't hurt.


PS: I forgot where to find this link earlier https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/03...what-it-takes/

[Snowpetrel]

You want a barge, and the best sailing barges are here http://www.triloboats.com

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Regarding Seasteading....

Thank you very much for that information, that will definitely come in handy.
I did have Annie Hill's book, but haven't gotten a chance to look at it.

This is the kind of response that really gets wind in the beginner's sails.

[Adam041987]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

You want a barge, and the best sailing barges are here Triloboats: Avast, Ye Curvy Dogs!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll look at them!