Monopoly marina ownership makes disabled veteran homeless

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by 4arch

Whatever the reasons and whatever the right or wrong of it, we got from a place where a middle class couple in the 1960s and 70s could buy these places and earn a comfortable living as owner/operators to a place where that door has all but been shut.

"Buy land; they're not making it any more" - Mark Twain

... goes double for waterfront. On a lake in Eastern Ontario that I'm familiar with, prices have more than doubled in two years.

The trend towards corporate ownership of assets is a natural move when the current cost of borrowing is absurdly low, but future inflation is all but assured. Housing is being vaccuumed up by corporations, to be rented out.

Welp, something has to fund our plush retirement... Sorry kids. And sorry liveaboards.

[Wallaby]

Originally Posted by Clivevon

Why politicize this thread?

Because it is a political situation. The primary purpose of business is to make money, full stop. It can make choices about how it does that (rape & escape, or farm & sustain) but its still about making money one way or another.
One important purpose of government is to regulate business - to decide what is or is not acceptable. That is politics. You cannot regulate if you are not in charge.
So don't blame the business - blame the voters who allow them to behave like that. Its politics.

First, your 'primary purpose of business', either 'choice', ultimately reflects what people want/buy--we get to vote with our feet and wallet. If you want 'farm/sustain,' you do not shop on Amazon.


Regulation by government presupposes politicians reflect our values, when in fact most are self-serving, seeking only to better their own lives--while convincing you they represent you. Yes--a con game.



IMHO the 'monopoly' takeover is less about politics than economics: specifically, year after year of near zero interest rates, resulting in all capital assets being greatly overpriced. Marinas are sold at twice (or more) their intrinsic value (if priced at positive real interest rates and actual net operating income). Small owners are forced out since the income from a marina does not justify the investment--better to sell to the mega-company.

Having overpaid, the mega-company (and others) have only one way to achieve profitability in any real sense--increase rents. Government control of rents will fail--profitability drops, risk increases...



That said, the blame musts fall on both parties as well as the FED (which perpetuates drivel about jobs and inflation). Together, they consistently drive up debt, which is now so great the only way it can be maintained is by zero interest rates.



My view, it will continue until the economic system implodes--welcome to the Greatest Depression Yet. The good news, marinas will be cheaper.

[Tellie]

Seriously, I'll put up 100K. If I can get 30 others here to do the same and incorporate then we'll buy and control our own Marina.

[S/V Illusion]

I think you guys are worrying about the wrong thing.

The most valuable commodity in terms of marinas is the land. Just be grateful when they change bands that condos don’t quickly follow. Condo development is much more lucrative with far less government bureaucracy to deal with. You should be grateful when the new ownership maintains the marina they buy.

[Lionshooter]

Safe Harbor Marinas from Dallas, TX bought out my marina also and prices went up almost immediately. They haven't said anything about us that live aboard, but we are waiting for that shoe to fall. And moving is not an option because they bought out the other 4 marinas also.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Seriously, I'll put up 100K. If I can get 30 others here to do the same and incorporate then we'll buy and control our own Marina.

I've given serious thought to doing this.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Seriously, I'll put up 100K. If I can get 30 others here to do the same and incorporate then we'll buy and control our own Marina.

I don't think that would be nearly sufficient funds in todays economy.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by 4arch

There are a couple of midsized mom and pop marinas for sale near me. They are both well kept, well run facilities and both have small swimming pools but otherwise are fairly basic in their amenity levels. They’re in a small town that attracts a lot of seasonal retirees and weekend boaters but does not otherwise have a large full time population or many employment opportunities outside of serving this population. They are listed for sale at $4 million each.

Short of the current owners being willing to provide seller financing, I see very little hope that these places ultimately stay out of corporate hands. Precious few mom and pop buyers can come up with $4 million cash and/or financing and of those who might, it’s an even tinier subset who’d be willing to take on the dirty work of managing a marina’s day to day operations. The $4 mil put into an index fund would kick off more interest than mom and pop could likely take home as income from the business.

Whatever the reasons and whatever the right or wrong of it, we got from a place where a middle class couple in the 1960s and 70s could buy these places and earn a comfortable living as owner/operators to a place where that door has all but been shut.

And this is why these marinas are in fact not worth $4million.

[rwidman]

Whoever owns the marina gets to make the rules. There are some restrictions of course, a marina could not only rent slips to white people or straight people, but other than that and local zoning laws, the owner gets to make the rules.

I too, hate to see so many marinas being bought up by corporations, but I don't have the money to buy one myself so there's nothing I can do about it.

I'm assuming you are in the same situation.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Whoever owns the marina gets to make the rules. There are some restrictions of course, a marina could not only rent slips to white people or straight people, but other than that and local zoning laws, the owner gets to make the rules.

I too, hate to see so many marinas being bought up by corporations, but I don't have the money to buy one myself so there's nothing I can do about it.

Waterfront land isn't just some commodity that anyone can buy and use as they see fit. For most communities with waterfront, they recognize it as a community benefit and responsibility- recreation, tourism, management, preservation. The community often exerts some control over what can and should be done, in the form of zoning regulations, development guidelines and other means.

So, communities can have some say in how marinas are run. Eg if it's run-down, or creates a problem from drinking, partying, derelict boats... or on the other end, ceases to be useful or affordable for the community, kicks out long-term law-abiding liveaboards (hint, hint)....

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Gulfstarcapt

Nope. Who said low cost? The live-aboard fee alone is $150/month. $80 electricity and $13.50/ft. Then the boat payment. Not talking about the cost. Talking about arbitrary rules and owning the majority of slip spaces in the region. There's no competition to keep them from destroying the middle income boating community.

I'm in the same marina as OP I think, and was told "no live aboards". We said "ok" and spend 50% of our time on board, 2 weeks at a time. No issues at all. I know there are a few folks that are full time aboard. They are quiet, keep their heads down, keep an eye on other peoples boats when storms come through, and generally are good neighbors.

Is it something that the marina is really going to enforce? or something where they are willing to look the other way to get effectively a free nighttime security guard?

IDK. Talk to Ben or Mark and get a feel for it. Or just pull away from the slip literally 1,000 yards and anchor overnight in Skill Creek or behind Pinkney Island or down by Hudsons.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Seriously, I'll put up 100K. If I can get 30 others here to do the same and incorporate then we'll buy and control our own Marina.

My home marina operates as a club. As a member, I'm a part owner. My membership entitles me to the exclusive use of one slip. The facilities are all maintained by the club, using both annual membership dues and proceeds from services like use of our boatyard and boat house.

To me, this is the only viable solution to the Safe Harbors problem. But it's not something you can just do. As was pointed out, there's almost no waterfront land where development of a new marina is feasible. The best hope would be current marina customers pooling their resources to out-bid Safe Harbors. But again, I doubt they'd have deep enough pockets

But, wherever such a club/marina exists, since the "customers" are actually owners who need a slip, it's almost guaranteed that it would never be sold to Safe Harbors or a condo developer. I suspect we could all vote to sell our marina and each get much more than we paid, but nobody wants to do that.

[CarlF]

My biggest problem with Safe Harbor (and worse now with Sun) is that the quality of boatyard work has gone way downhill. Many of the guys were laid off and told to work as independent contractors (paying a cut to Safe Harbor).

At what used to be my Sun Marina there are now cameras all over the place so some bean counter in the mid-west headquarters can watch what everyone is doing to be sure every hour is getting billed.

Sun’s main business is mobile home parks where high quality craftsmanship isn’t even part of the business model.

They’re doing fine with the high profit part like renting slips - just hope you don’t need anything more complicated than a coat of anti fouling paint.

[sailingabe41ds]

My boat is an a Safe Harbor Marina. They bought it from another company and I can say they do not maintain the club house as nicely and I could not make reciprocal reservations in a sister marina till the month of departure. This made it very difficult to plan a trip and this was completely different than the previous owners. The place also does not look as well maintained as it used to be with the previous owner.
That said, we had severe winds 6 months ago damaging over 20 slips. Nothing has been done. The biggest problem is not money...insurance ...nor Safe Harbor. The biggest problem is the STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND THE LOCAL COUNTY GOVERNMENT!!!
Safe Harbor has to deal with the Coastal Commission, the City, the County ..just to get things repaired. The people in charge are elected idiots who have no business or private sector experience. Think about it...it will probably take 9-12 months to repair the docs that they could be leasing out at 800-1000 each for that period. Do the math...that is 200 to 250K in lost income which is probably more than the cost of repairs!!!!
In addition, the county owns the land, leases it to the marina and they control what Safe Harbor pays. At one point the county told another marina that they had to raise their prices so that they could be "competative" with the less efficient marina.... I kid you not!!!
I am not a fan of Safe Harbor, but there are many who post without having any ideas of what it takes to run a business in California. When you take into account environmental laws, city laws, county laws, coastal commission, cost of labor and so on it is a miracle any one can run a business here.
I do not know about your State, but out here the enemy and the biggest problem we have with costs, live aboard, is regulation and government. Safe Harbor ..corporate America ..is only a smaller problem compared to the bigger systemic inefficient bureaucracy. As I said in a previous post...the local government NOT SAFE HARBOR controls the % of people who can be a live aboard in our marinas.
Same area had a restaurant building that sat vacant for almost a decade during the 90s recession. Ventura county wanted anyone who leased the building to pay back taxes on the building for the last ten years before signing a new lease...so it just sat there loosing money for the county and maintaining high unemployement rate. These people did not care and non of them had ever run a business before.
It is not all about the greedy Corporate America and Safe Harbor.... it is much more complicated than that. It is also the local governments who are making it very difficult for the ma's and pa's to run a business thus giving the big corporate an foot in the door.

IMHO

Abe

[sailingabe41ds]

Someone mentioned enforcement...yes they will. We have a electronic gate card that records every time you come in an out and it is very hard to get away with living on board without them knowing about it. They will evict you...the Harbor Master will get involved if you do not have a permit to live on board. So yes...they enforce. Do not know about other states...but in California you can not pass gas without the State knowing about it.

Abe