Non NZ cyclone season options

[owly]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

So we have 3 people out of a population of about twenty five million so far this year and it's July and for that we've gone a good way towards destroying our economy, burdened our youth with massive debt and surrendered a goodly portion of our civil rights. A man in WA was recently sentenced to seven months in prison for breaking quarantine by associating with tradesmen working on his house, draconian or not?

The sentence was not the least bit draconian. If measures like quarantine are to work and stop the spread of disease they need teeth. It takes only a single contact to begin the spread as in the recent outbreak, and until someone actually begins to display symptoms... often 2 weeks, nobody is the wiser. Meanwhile they've been unknowingly spreading it. If they had been more aggressive in enforcing public health measures here in the US... like masks and distancing, we would not have half a million dead Americans. Delta will not be stopped without massive vaccination campaigns, and people acting responsibly....... like adults.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

that's 65 in hospital,

21 in ICU,

4 on ventilators,

City population 5,000,000.

I'm not sure what point you are addressing here, Ray. These rather admirable figures were achieved with the fairly strict rules and regs applied here in Oz... they did work well, didn't they? What would those numbers have been if the controls had not been applied?

Observations of the chaos in the USA where the restrictions were tardy and folks did not comply as well are in stark contrast IMO.

Ann and I chose to stay in Tasmania because we felt somewhat protected by the gov's actions (and the "moat" (Bass Strait)). So far it has worked...

Jim

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm not sure what point you are addressing here, Ray. These rather admirable figures were achieved with the fairly strict rules and regs applied here in Oz... they did work well, didn't they? What would those numbers have been if the controls had not been applied?

Observations of the chaos in the USA where the restrictions were tardy and folks did not comply as well are in stark contrast IMO.

Ann and I chose to stay in Tasmania because we felt somewhat protected by the gov's actions (and the "moat" (Bass Strait)). So far it has worked...

Jim

Hi Jim,

I was born into a society where the populace enjoyed extensive civil liberties. Over my life time I have observed a gradual infringement and erosion of these liberties. In my youth in my home state, society and state lived in such harmony that even post WW2 when the public was armed to the teeth, the police did not go armed and could totally rely upon immediate public assistance if called for whilst dobbers and rats were scorned and even the criminals and police exhibited mutual respect.

Since this damned covid thing started I have viewed on my TV police officers brutally man handling young women for the "terrible" crime of not wearing a mask. Another young, pregnant mother being handcuffed in her own home for expressing resistance on social media to some of the measures put in place by a state government. And the latest a senior citizen being brutally thrown to the ground and handcuffed for protesting the arrest of his wife. Our police forces are being turned into the Stazi and it wont end well.

During my early school days we regularly experienced epidemics, one of the worst of which was polio and the Salk vacine had not been developed. Sensible precautions were taken to minimize the spread of a disease which primarily attacked children but there were no lock downs or state border closures nor fortress Australia closure of international borders.

Prior to this latest relatively small outbreak covid, and following an early stumble whereby lax state health officials by way of poor quarantine practices allowed the disease into the public space, the NSW government had done a pretty good job of managing the public health issues and had refrained from state wide lock downs and state border closures. This contrasted with a number of the other states who assumed much more brutalistic stances. What is responsible for the change of attitude in this formerly well behaved state.

In my opinion the change has been occasioned by the constant, ravening expression of a media with a relentless fixity on case numbers and the inevitability of death of all who may catch the disease. Witness the two kilometer lines of stalled traffic of mainly private sector workers in the very early hours of the morning (I talking winter darkness here folks) in order to comply with the governments requirement to be tested every three days in order to continue at their daily work. It is only a very small segment of the media who extols balance and moderation.

Our governing elite and their bureaucracy have grasped the opportunity to exercise a power madness not seen in Australia since the founding convict days. The bloke in WA who was sentenced to seven months prison for not complying with quarantine conditions was lucky not to have been hung up by his wrists on a triangle and given one hundred lashes with a cat of nine tails.

The slow death of a once great little democracy is what we are witnessing here Jim.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Hi Jim,

I was born into a society where the populace enjoyed extensive civil liberties. Over my life time I have observed a gradual infringement and erosion of these liberties. In my youth in my home state, society and state lived in such harmony that even post WW2 when the public was armed to the teeth, the police did not go armed and could totally rely upon immediate public assistance if called for whilst dobbers and rats were scorned and even the criminals and police exhibited mutual respect.

Since this damned covid thing started I have viewed on my TV police officers brutally man handling young women for the "terrible" crime of not wearing a mask. Another young, pregnant mother being handcuffed in her own home for expressing resistance on social media to some of the measures put in place by a state government. And the latest a senior citizen being brutally thrown to the ground and handcuffed for protesting the arrest of his wife. Our police forces are being turned into the Stazi and it wont end well.

During my early school days we regularly experienced epidemics, one of the worst of which was polio and the Salk vacine had not been developed. Sensible precautions were taken to minimize the spread of a disease which primarily attacked children but there were no lock downs or state border closures nor fortress Australia closure of international borders.

Prior to this latest relatively small outbreak covid, and following an early stumble whereby lax state health officials by way of poor quarantine practices allowed the disease into the public space, the NSW government had done a pretty good job of managing the public health issues and had refrained from state wide lock downs and state border closures. This contrasted with a number of the other states who assumed much more brutalistic stances. What is responsible for the change of attitude in this formerly well behaved state.

In my opinion the change has been occasioned by the constant, ravening expression of a media with a relentless fixity on case numbers and the inevitability of death of all who may catch the disease. Witness the two kilometer lines of stalled traffic of mainly private sector workers in the very early hours of the morning (I talking winter darkness here folks) in order to comply with the governments requirement to be tested every three days in order to continue at their daily work. It is only a very small segment of the media who extols balance and moderation.

Our governing elite and their bureaucracy have grasped the opportunity to exercise a power madness not seen in Australia since the founding convict days. The bloke in WA who was sentenced to seven months prison for not complying with quarantine conditions was lucky not to have been hung up by his wrists on a triangle and given one hundred lashes with a cat of nine tails.

The slow death of a once great little democracy is what we are witnessing here Jim.

You must have been a resident Hutt River. It is the only place I can think of that matches your description of yesteryear. Elsewhere your beloved 'unarmed' wallopers were big, brutal and often dispensed rough 'justice' to the lower classes for misdemeanours while protecting the ruling classes from having to answer for serious misfeasance.

Yes, off topic and thread drift but if we are going down the off topic rabbit hole, let's keep it verisimilar!

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Wotname

You must have been a resident Hutt River. It is the only place I can think of that matches your description of yesteryear. Elsewhere your beloved 'unarmed' wallopers were big, brutal and often dispensed rough 'justice' to the lower classes for misdemeanours while protecting the ruling classes from having to answer for serious misfeasance.

Yes, off topic and thread drift but if we are going down the off topic rabbit hole, let's keep it verisimilar!

I fairly constantly kept company with what you describe as the "lower classes" since they contained the larikan element and don't recall any of them being heavied by the cops, You must have been raised in a class warrior family to have gained that impression.

[NevilleCat]

I wonder if anyone has any other suggestions for the OP as far as the original topic goes. Regardless whether it is possible or not this season or next.

[owly]

Obviously covid has put a crimp in things, and until it is controlled, which will ONLY happen once enough people are vaccinated, things will be difficult. Isolation by border closures, etc, is only a temporary measure. It will NOT keep the virus out long term, and just buys time to get more people vaccinated.



The original question should be of interest to any Pacific cruisers. The "standard" seems to be an annual stampede to NZ via Minnerva Reefs, and hide out for 6 months then return to the islands. Not that NZ is not an attractive place to spend time, it still makes sense to look for other destinations. Anything north of the equator would seem a reasonable alternative.... The Marshalls, Carolines, Micronesia, Palau, The Marianas, The northern Line Islands, and of course Hawaii, and Japan, and the Philippines should all be outside their normal cyclone season. Clearly New Zealand offers not only beautiful cruising grounds in their summer, but superb maintenance facilities and skilled craftsmen, a familiar predominantly white English speaking western culture with all the familiar urban features most Americans are comfortable with.. a respite from dealing with unfamiliar cultures and languages presumably.... a place where you naturally fit into the culture.

Other alternatives might include some of Central America... Panama, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Mexico some of which might have some capable affordable boatyards, and a low cost of living.

[El Pinguino]

I wouldn't look at 6 months in New Zealand as 'hiding out' - it is as you say a destination in its own right.

Heading back to Central America from FP or further west would seem a bit counter intuitive to me.
Even heading for Chile would want to be part of a grander plan - its a long way there from FP and a longer way back.

Does anyone know where I can find a pair of those rose tinted spectacles that Raymond has - the ones with the 'time traveler' option? As they say - nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I wouldn't look at 6 months in New Zealand as 'hiding out' - it is as you say a destination in its own right.

Heading back to Central America from FP or further west would seem a bit counter intuitive to me.
Even heading for Chile would want to be part of a grander plan - its a long way there from FP and a longer way back.

Does anyone know where I can find a pair of those rose tinted spectacles that Raymond has - the ones with the 'time traveler' option? As they say - nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

I pondered on your remarks for a short while and then realized that you probably had not had the advantage of being born and raised in the right state and that this had resulted in your nihilistic view of Australian society. The other alternative is that you were not born until after about 1970 when things started down the road we now find ourselves in and are probably a victim of provider captured education system.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I pondered on your remarks for a short while and then realized that you probably had not had the advantage of being born and raised in the right state and that this had resulted in your nihilistic view of Australian society. The other alternative is that you were not born until after about 1970 when things started down the road we now find ourselves in and are probably a victim of provider captured education system.

I grew up in a very 'right' state under a very right PM and a federal government that thought conscripting young men and sending them to die in Vietnam was the 'right' thing to do.
I had an idyllic childhood where all the policemen were gentlemen - I was blissfully unaware that two of the eastern states had police forces that rated 10 out of 10 for corruption or that in SA the favourite police pastime was poofter bashing.
So the best you can muster in the present day is four cases of 'police brutality' where the victims brought it upon themselves - filmed it- and then managed to get it on Sky News.

I bet you think Gladys is doing a fine job.

PS by 1970 I was sailing as C/O out of HK.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I grew up in a very 'right' state under a very right PM and a federal government that thought conscripting young men and sending them to die in Vietnam was the 'right' thing to do.
I had an idyllic childhood where all the policemen were gentlemen - I was blissfully unaware that two of the eastern states had police forces that rated 10 out of 10 for corruption or that in SA the favourite police pastime was poofter bashing.
So the best you can muster in the present day is four cases of 'police brutality' where the victims brought it upon themselves - filmed it- and then managed to get it on Sky News.

I bet you think Gladys is doing a fine job.

PS by 1970 I was sailing as C/O out of HK.

So you are from the "Blue Murder", state where the police force ran a hit gang and dealt drugs in competition with the criminal element (killing some off occasionally to lessen it) and a getaway service using police vehicles for armed robbers (in theory to minimize the danger to the public of police chases) but one could not consider that corrupt and be quiet happy to point a finger to a neighboring state where the worst they did was take kick backs from night club owners. Policing in NSW has been corrupt and brutal since the days of the Rum Corps, it's just so ubiquitous and long standing that people accept it as the norm and it rarely gets the attention of the media. Go check the number of suicides by police who feared fronting the Wood Royal Commission into police corruption in NSW more than death.

Interesting that Gladys has taken in about 60% of Australians returning home from overseas and is not responsible for border closures and except for the confusion over the cruise ship fiasco does not immediately call a press conference to blame the feds every time something goes wrong. There is no doubt the woman lacks a proper sense of xenophobia. However, hopefully she holds her nerve and we will get some decent statistics regarding the efficacy of the various responses.

In contrast to Gladys, who is keeping her nose to the grindstone in an attempt to balance the needs of the productive sector of the economy and the public health issues and compassionate considerations for Australians who wish to return to their home country, Anastasia (and undoubtedly a large entourage of public service assistants) is jetting off to Japan on a completely unnecessary junket within the next few days.

If Anastasia can import 500 football players from the epicenter of the latest outbreak into her state I see no good reason at all why we cannot accept cruising yachts into one designated clearance port to sit out their quarantine on their boats and escape the cyclone zone during the cyclone season. And incidentally, of the lot of these tin god premiers (state governors) on past performance Gladys is probably the one most likely to acceed to it.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

So you are from the "Blue Murder", state .

No I am not.

[RaymondR]

Anyway, I'm on my winter cruise to the balmy north, will wander south again before the cyclones get me and am not relying on the media for my covid facts - I am keeping a very close eye on the toilet paper shelf at the local supermarket.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by kryg

Before you call people morons who will not take the vaccine, you should first learn to source and read published scientific papers on the subject, before you make an urban myth general comment as you have. Otherwise, you come across foolishly.

Regardless of what you believe about vaccines or how you came to believe it the reality is that those of us with faith in science who took the vaccine, not only for our own health but for the greater good, are who will be responsible for any lifted restrictions and freedoms regained for everyone.

So, if you think whatever natural cure you've heard about will save you from infection that's fantastic. Just please, if you will, continue to wear your mask, social distance, and deny yourself the social pleasures we who took the incredibly minuscule risk of vaccination are enjoying. We earned it, you did not.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ixnax

Regardless of what you believe about vaccines or how you came to believe it the reality is that those of us with faith in science who took the vaccine, not only for our own health but for the greater good, are who will be responsible for any lifted restrictions and freedoms regained for everyone.

So, if you think whatever natural cure you've heard about will save you from infection that's fantastic. Just please, if you will, continue to wear your mask, social distance, and deny yourself the social pleasures we who took the incredibly minuscule risk of vaccination are enjoying. We earned it, you did not.

We are the champions, my friends.
And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end.
We are the champions.
We are the champions.
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the world.

I've taken my bows,
And my curtain calls.
I consider it a challenge before the whole human race,
And I ain't gonna lose.

And I need just go on and on, and on, and on.