Places Where You Can Retire on $200,000 and Feel Rich

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by seadago

6) If a cruiser hoping live aboard, and to at least spend significant time on the hook, there are no protected anchorages on the Atlantic or River Plate coasts. Only options are the marinas in Punta del Este, Piriapolis, Puerto del Buceo (Montevideo), and Colonia, and mooring fees in those places are on par with the most expensive Med areas. There are others further north up the Uruguay river.

I'll give you the other points but the article never claimed it was great for cruising on a boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

cj, I'm not sure that's 100% correct.

The data absolutely shows and supports the notion that we are wealthier (as a society) than we hav eever been, and this is spread thoughout society.

So, for example, 200 years ago, an urban worker was barely able to survive on their wages, much less purchase a home or start a business.

These days the middle class has spread, and only the very bottom of the food chain now struggles - people who have been abandoned by society (mentally ill, ex-cons, homeless older people etc).

Even in the States those on 'basic wage' jobs can survive (although not so much in larger cities any more).

And yes, the top 1% owns more than the bottom 60%, and that wealth is concentrating year on year - so "equitable distribution" of wealth is slipping.

But, overall, the *whole* society is still way better off in terms of health, education, access to employment etc etc etc than the *whole society* was 200 years ago.

Of course, one of the issues is that capitalism - the entire global economy - has, per se, grown dramatically, as has inflation, so purchasing power is less now than it once was.

This is why the lack of *real growth* in wages, pretty much across the board in devloped countries, is so harmful, as people's wages are being eroded by inflation, and so purchasing power is falling.

It is this stagnation of wages growth that is most troubling for economists and central bankers across the globe.

Our own central banker, Reserve Bank governor, Phillip Lowe has, of late, been admonishing our conservastive govt for not doing more to stimulkate growth with fiscal spending.

They have a *political dogma* position to reduce the deficit and get the (Oz) fed gov budget back into surplus, and look like achieving that in this current term, something the US govt has not a snowballs chance in hell of achieving any time soon.

But Lowe wants them to drop the "must achieve surplus in this term" position and begin borowing and spending to stimulate the economy and achieve some actual growth in real wages, as otherwise he's going to be soon in the same position as the US Fed Reserve with nowhere else to go but "fiscal stimulus" (i.e. printing money) which doesn't actually help much in the longer term.

At least the Oz fed gov has some fuel in the tank to increase borrowing and spending. The US deficit is like how many trillions these days....?????

Recession is coming.

That's my prediction.

I agree 100%, if it wasn't for immigration we would already be in recession.

Our housing market is quite unique, yet we (most) dont realize it, completely unsustainable. When I read about property prices in parts of Europe, what you can get in rural spain etc in amazes me.

A very worldly mate of mine sold his acreage back home several years back as he saw how absurd it was relative to other parts of the world, for the money he got he purchased a block of units in Florida ,a 3 story villa in Spain and is now renovating a old cottage on beautiful acreage in country spain! He hasn't worked since selling his Australian property, collects rent and still laughs at the craziness Australians thinking being debt slaves is cool.

You mentioned the Rba, when interest rates were dropped to 3% several years back Glenn Stevens said "this is a emergency interest rate only" ,we are now at .75%!!....if 3% is an emergency.75% is?

It's the boiling frog analogy I fear.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I agree 100%, if it wasn't for immigration we would already be in recession.

Our housing market is quite unique, yet we (most) dont realize it, completely unsustainable. When I read about property prices in parts of Europe, what you can get in rural spain etc in amazes me.

A very worldly mate of mine sold his acreage back home several years back as he saw how absurd it was relative to other parts of the world, for the money he got he purchased a block of units in Florida ,a 3 story villa in Spain and is now renovating a old cottage on beautiful acreage in country spain! He hasn't worked since selling his Australian property, collects rent and still laughs at the craziness Australians thinking being debt slaves is cool.

If you go out to rural america and buy fixer uppers, you can get them dirt cheap also and even make some nice profit on them.

If you've ever done a renovation, the idea that he "hasn't worked since" is silly. Even if he's just managing the project and hiring out the labor, it's significant work.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you go out to rural america and buy fixer uppers, you can get them dirt cheap also and even make some nice profit on them.

If you've ever done a renovation, the idea that he "hasn't worked since" is silly. Even if he's just managing the project and hiring out the labor, it's significant work.

As a ex mechanic, plaster ,restumper etc I understand work regarding renovations, I also know my friend.

My definition of work is "because you have to", he is renovating the little cottage because he "wants to" , it's not a profit making exercise. His money comes from renting his apartments.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by daletournier

As a ex mechanic, plaster ,restumper etc I understand work regarding renovations, I also know my friend.

My definition of work is "because you have to", he is renovating the little cottage because he "wants to" , it's not a profit making exercise. His money comes from renting his apartments.

Rural spain is pretty cheap. We have some friends from the UK who did similar but it's not significantly cheaper than Rural USA....regardless of if the renovation is "because you have to" or "wants to"...there's not a big difference.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Rural spain is pretty cheap. We have some friends from the UK who did similar but it's not significantly cheaper than Rural USA....regardless of if the renovation is "because you have to" or "wants to"...there's not a big difference.

Your missing my point. I'll leave it at that.

[jmh2002]

Yes, and depending what you are into, life in rural USA, vs rural Spain (or Italy, or Greece, etc, etc) is quite different.

What many western world people consider to be luxury or quality items, such as wine, cheese, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, etc, and a premium is now charged for such products - well now you are living in the heartland of all those products and they are considered normal. The internet on the other hand, well...

It's a bit like being a mango fan in Dominica, where in season they fall on the ground, on the road, and the kids kick them around like footballs, and you are not sure if you should be horrified or think that you are in heaven

[Pelagic]

What I am really getting from this Thread is that it is all about "Attitude" on how and where to retire inexpensively.

1 Eat what is available locally
2 Work at reducing labor costs because you enjoy the challenge and exercise, not because you have to
3 Accept that your life has changed and do not try to hold on to the past.

Then I think you can be comfortable anywhere.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

What I am really getting from this Thread is that it is all about "Attitude" on how and where to retire inexpensively.

1 Eat what is available locally
2 Work at reducing labor costs because you enjoy the challenge and exercise, not because you have to
3 Accept that your life has changed and do not try to hold on to the past.

Then I think you can be comfortable anywhere.

I think there are a couple of caveats to that.

One is that most all the places mentioned are in fairly warm stable climates. We live our place in Newfoundland, very inexpensive to buy and what a view, but heat would kill the budget.

IMHO comfortable living in a temperate climate is a consequence of a inexpensive calories we use for heating. I think this is a very unappreciated factor that is kind of built into our assumptions because we like to sail in warm waters.

Secondly is the availability of sufficient local food. During WWII some neutral islands were near starvation because their rice supplies had been disrupted. They were not food self sufficient. Most places today are far more dependent upon foreign food than ever. I would like a place that is not so susceptible to international changes. It may be a remote possibility but still one I consider.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I think there are a couple of caveats to that.

One is that most all the places mentioned are in fairly warm stable climates. We live our place in Newfoundland, very inexpensive to buy and what a view, but heat would kill the budget.

IMHO comfortable living in a temperate climate is a consequence of a inexpensive calories we use for heating. I think this is a very unappreciated factor that is kind of built into our assumptions because we like to sail in warm waters.

Secondly is the availability of sufficient local food. During WWII some neutral islands were near starvation because their rice supplies had been disrupted. They were not food self sufficient. Most places today are far more dependent upon foreign food than ever. I would like a place that is not so susceptible to international changes. It may be a remote possibility but still one I consider.

Your last paragraph is very relevant to the way I think. Call me doom and gloom, I would've a few years back but I now see great value in land that can produce and has water ,just in case. Your point regarding history proves that theres periods of time when the world changes ,and what one values changes with it.

I'm currently in Bonaire, beautiful water, diving each day and enjoying a beer and a crepe as we speak BUT I would never buy here. The island relies so heavily on food imports, infact imports almost everything.

I find myself regularly looking at places that have the ability to be self sufficient, productive land is real capital.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How it can ever be considered right or fair that a tiny group can hold more wealth than the vast majority of people.

Ah, but could it be a mistake to view global "wealth" as a finite thing, like a single cart of potatoes owned by a medieval king?
It seems to me that when the very real possibility of creating one's own large individual wealth is realistically available to anyone with a good idea and good work ethic, the rest of the society benefits directly from all those wonderful ideas that bear fruit. Human incentive. This might be the most "right and fair" arrangement in history, no? The unfair part could simply be that such a unique cradle of self-made rich people seems to exist in only one place in the world.

Alas, isn't there just a bit of ironic humor floating about when a couple of guys arguing about wealth inequality are trying to decide where to park their yachts in retirement? (note to self, Uruguay- not so much)

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I think there are a couple of caveats to that.

One is that most all the places mentioned are in fairly warm stable climates. We live our place in Newfoundland, very inexpensive to buy and what a view, but heat would kill the budget.

IMHO comfortable living in a temperate climate is a consequence of a inexpensive calories we use for heating. I think this is a very unappreciated factor that is kind of built into our assumptions because we like to sail in warm waters.

Secondly is the availability of sufficient local food. During WWII some neutral islands were near starvation because their rice supplies had been disrupted. They were not food self sufficient. Most places today are far more dependent upon foreign food than ever. I would like a place that is not so susceptible to international changes. It may be a remote possibility but still one I consider.

Of course Ireland had plenty of food during the Potato Famine, huge quantities of which were exported while many on the island died of starvation. Opportunity cost is a difficult concept to get your head around but really changes the way you see the world. The concept of "self sufficient" is more or less meaningless absent actual complete physical isolation from the rest of the world.

[john61ct]

In a real in-depth SHTF scenario, deep personal relationships built up over time in a true community of near-subsistence level farmers that will save your butt.

And the valuable skills you bring to the bartering table while waiting for your own crop plantings to bear fruit.

First worlders are up the creek will be very lucky to last 5 years.

Depends on the failure modes of course, but our global civilization is darn fragile.

[hpeer]

There is only about 8 countries that export basic food stuffs like rice, corn, soybean, wheat, etc. Some may export some food but import much more, India and rice for example. The producers are something like USA, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Russia, Argentina. Probably missed a few, point is it’s not many.

But even within Canada the Providence of Newfoundland, once a source of much european protein (Cod) now imports something over 90% of its food. Truth is it always imported a large percentage of its food stuffs like flour. Now it is just more out of balance.

Some countries are pretty close to or at even. These, and the producers, are the ones goat hit a sweet spot. Except not a lot of great cruising ground in that list.

As a curiosity Egypt and Ethiopia were once large agricultural exporters, not that I would want to retire anywhere near there.

Frankly my stats on this are weak. It have found it difficult to come up with any primary data sources so I have to rely upon others. There are lots of data points about the dollar value of this or that countries exports. Chilean cherries in February are a wonderful thing, and bring a lot of cash, but don’t fill the belly like a bushel of wheat. Some stats seem to include trans-shipments of food which really screws with the picture. So if someone has CALORIC import/export data I’d love to see it.

However the point remains, good retirement locations are hard to come by.

Best I can do.

http://www.fao.org/3/i2493e/i2493e03.pdf

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Secondly is the availability of sufficient local food. During WWII some neutral islands were near starvation because their rice supplies had been disrupted. They were not food self sufficient. Most places today are far more dependent upon foreign food than ever. I would like a place that is not so susceptible to international changes. It may be a remote possibility but still one I consider.

Totally agree that a warm climate makes simple living possible.

As far as local food sustainability, I think the irony here is that in the food growing provinces my observation is that the people there grow or catch what they need, eat healthy fresh food and their skin and body benefits from that diet.
Then the young are tempted by big city lights like Manila, eat processed junk food, work and live in squalor and their skin breaks out terribly!

When I travel the provinces, I see happy well fed people who definitely could benefit from better education on hygiene and efficient farming techniques..... but they live by barter in a sustainable society and import stuff is a luxury, not needed.

Talented Retired foreigners, who choose to live in those places, definitely help those communities to fish and farm a bit smarter.

Not a bad way of giving back.