potential liveaboards?

[sneuman]

i know, i know, but here goes anyway:

i need liveaboard space for 1-2 people (myself son part time, possibly lady friend). i like classic lines and although want as much space as i can get, would actually prefer a somewhat smaller boat to go sail (37' LOA feels like my upper limit).

not interested in the philosophical arguments for and against livingaboard. I have considered them and have decided to go for it.

anyway, on a limited budget (i.e., 30-year-old fiberglass semi-project boat), this is what I'm looking at presently. Thoughts?

a) Tayana 37 cutter
b) Allied Princess ketch 36
c) Alberg 35

[S/V Elusive]

JUST liveaboard or would you take it out sailing? I currently liveaboard, work, sail the boat once a month (min.), and it is outfitted to go cruising at the drop of a hat (come'on LOTTO!!!!).

I am (unfortunately) the only one currently living aboard - this boat is packed! It is VERY tough to do any projects - mainly because where do you put the stuff that is in the way of accessing the project du jour?

In addition, some projects kinda of tend to interfear with living on board ... like fresh water projects, head projects, galley projects, portlight or hatch projects (especially in wet climates), berthing projects (get the idea?) - it is very difficult.

Now, if you have a storage shed, and don't plan to sail the boat (right away), aren't gonna have all the 'stuff' onboard for cruising, I think almost any boat, not initially created to be a 'go-fast' boat, would be a pretty good choice.

I like your choices a & b - not familiar with c. Good luck.

[sneuman]

thanks for your thoughts. the alberg 35, like other alberg designs, fairly skinny - which makes a good sea boat, but not such a good liveaboard.

i'm really looking for something that needs a bit of work (i am confident, from past experience, that i can do anything within reason), but not too much work. I say "not too much" because I know the difficulty of livingaboard and having the boat in disarray from a major project at the same time.

I also want something I can pay off in fairly short-term so as to have the option to swallow the anchor again should I, by that time, find the liveaboard thing a bit too much (think I'll be ok, but never know).

[Weyalan]

Personally, I don't think it matters too much who designed the boat and to what philosophy or rule... just that the boat was soundly built and well maintained...

Are you hoping to find the boat in your general vicinity (SE Asia?)? Would you travel to buy and do your own delivery? How much are you looking to pay?

[sneuman]

i'm actually relocating to Annapolis area later this month. So, I am looking mainly Maryland, Virginia, but possibly broader mid-Atlantic if that proves practical. Since I am starting a new job, I don't think I am going to have week-10 days to deliver a boat, so I suspect it needs to be close to home base.

[DeepFrz]

These folks seem to have a nice inventory of cruising boats and are close to your new home.

RogueWave Yacht Sales & Services, LLC. (Annapolis, MD)

Must be lots of other brokers with good inventory in that area, plus local listings for sale by owner.

Good luck.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

Personally, I don't think it matters too much who designed the boat and to what philosophy or rule... just that the boat was soundly built and well maintained...

A designer’s predisposed biases (philosophy), and the measurement rules governing a particular design, can have a huge impact on the eventual outcome of a design.

Unfortunately, there is no “cruising” rule - they are all “racing” rules. Racing yacht designers study measurement rules, to find ways to design yachts that are fast, but appear slow to the rules.

I suspect that most boats, designed to a race rule, will make poor to fair cruisers.

Olin Stephens (of Sparkman & Stephens, and a successful “rule-beater”, himself) feels that the changes in the techniques and methods of yacht design are primarily due to the rating rules. He is discouraged that the rules are essentially dictating design, even for the average sailboat. He believes that this has resulted in designs which push the envelope. and are potentially unsafe for the average sailor. The current rating rules are, in Stephens' opinion, so "complicated and messed up" that they are in dire need of an overhaul.

Rating rules shaped our boats ~ by Ted Brewer
from “Good Old Boat Magazine”, Volume 3, May/June 2000
Ted Brewer explains how racing rules affected seaworthiness - but not always for the better
Good Old Boat: Rating rules shaped our boats by Ted Brewer

[sneuman]

i feel i have got a fairly decent idea what makes a good cruiser, but i am interested in thoughts on build-quality, specific problem areas and liveability.

[Idiens]

I am just reading through John Vigor's book "The seaworthy offshore sailboat", which has some very good check lists to apply to cruising boats. Annie Hill gives good practical advice in her book "Voyaging on a small income". The lists are long. They both show that what makes a good cruising boat, is not the same as the modern racer/cruisers.

[Captain Mark]

I once babysat, okay boatsat a Tayana and thought it was a fabulous boat, sailed great and was easy to singlehand. Also a lot of boat for the money if I recall right.

Mark

[Weyalan]

I don't disagree with your observations, gord (and if I did, this is hardly the thread in which to further such discussion). I think that the current IRC rating rule is actually a significant improvement on both IOR and IMS and has been a step in the right direction against the "rule-beating" boats that you mention...

My point was more that it is the sailor that makes the cruiser moreso than the boat...

Originally Posted by GordMay

A designer’s predisposed biases (philosophy), and the measurement rules governing a particular design, can have a huge impact on the eventual outcome of a design.

Unfortunately, there is no “cruising” rule - they are all “racing” rules. Racing yacht designers study measurement rules, to find ways to design yachts that are fast, but appear slow to the rules.

I suspect that most boats, designed to a race rule, will make poor to fair cruisers.

Olin Stephens (of Sparkman & Stephens, and a successful “rule-beater”, himself) feels that the changes in the techniques and methods of yacht design are primarily due to the rating rules. He is discouraged that the rules are essentially dictating design, even for the average sailboat. He believes that this has resulted in designs which push the envelope. and are potentially unsafe for the average sailor. The current rating rules are, in Stephens' opinion, so "complicated and messed up" that they are in dire need of an overhaul.

Rating rules shaped our boats ~ by Ted Brewer
from “Good Old Boat Magazine”, Volume 3, May/June 2000
Ted Brewer explains how racing rules affected seaworthiness - but not always for the better
Good Old Boat: Rating rules shaped our boats by Ted Brewer

[Jack Tar]

Ive seen some great boats for living aboard both fast and slow. There is no right boat "No Holy Grail" Only what is right for you. What you like,what you have dreams about. I have a friend who lives on a Farr 44. Cold molded hull and a great interior lay out. He has built several boats of his own. The Farr 44 is Very fast and a good performance cruiser but most of all the boat is right for him. He has been around the Horn in it and is still cruising. I on the other hand live on a Formosa 51. Large, slow, a real chalenge to dock in some conditions. Her interior is like a ballroom and she is to me the ideal liveaboard. Perhaps a little big for world cruising but still capabal of it. Some prefer Westsail, Baba, Hans Christian other C&C , Cal or even a Cat. You look for what fits YOU. To hell with oppinions and articals telling us this or that. If your happy with a design it will work for you. That's all that maters in the end.

[sneuman]

all else being equal (which, inevitably, it never is), would a $20k difference in price between the more expensive Tayana and the cheaper Princess close the gap?

What about re-sale, I expect the Tayana would do better 5-10 years from now. How much is that worth in the calculation?