Question about battery power

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

I have 3 105 solar panels in Bimini and adding another. 4 house 12V lipo 100Amp 200amp peak. 2 Bow 12V /24
90 amp crank motor/Gen
I don’t have a wind generator but I’ve made a few tow generators.
I kite generator would be fun. I saw an inflated wing with a turbine under to generate power being towed behind a boat. Turns out it was an experiment and home made.

Thanks for sharing. I'm no expert, but a tow generator seems to be more a gadget for a circumnavigation of the globe, not exactly my aspiration.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

You can read up as much as you want but you will end up with the typical system on most well equipped boats today:

1) Four batteries for at least 440 AHr capacity. You need this capacity to run high startup current appliances such as the fridge and some power tools through an inverter.

2) These batteries should be charged a) from a quality shore power charger; b) from a quality alternator on the engine (not necessarily externally regulated but it should output at least 14.4V to the batteries). This will do for most people and you can always run the engine to charge up the batteries.

3) Initially you can monitor the state of charge with a digital voltmeter but eventually you want to buy a quality battery gauge that measures current in/out.

4) At a later stage you can add solar if you can find the space and do not mind the looks. Leave solar for the second season as it is expensive to install. Forget about wind.

Thank you very much for these inputs.
I do agree that 4x batteries with high amps and if possible lithium would be the way to go, I will first see if the alternator is at least 90amps and replace it if not. But being landlocked, our consumption will be higher than average once on the boat, more charging power will be essential for a smooth transition, so I believe solar is a must also and I want to do it once only.
Once I see the results of these changes, I will investigate further for a generator and maybe a wind generator, if ever the adaption is more difficult.

[LoudMusic]

Originally Posted by Drek4

Well thank your for that information, that confirms what many have complained about, but I guess if cloudy for a day or so, it saves from using engine/generator.

The conclusion I came to was that the wind generator wasn't ever going to be cost effective against running the main engine for electricity. And there's no guarantee that the wind will blow when you need it.

I had heaps of solar and heaps of battery capacity, though. There were only a handful of days in 3+ years that I burned diesel explicitly to produce electricity. And in reality if I had been following the forecast a bit closer I could have been more efficient the preceding days and probably gotten through the dark days without any trouble.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

The conclusion I came to was that the wind generator wasn't ever going to be cost effective against running the main engine for electricity. And there's no guarantee that the wind will blow when you need it.

I had heaps of solar and heaps of battery capacity, though. There were only a handful of days in 3+ years that I burned diesel explicitly to produce electricity. And in reality if I had been following the forecast a bit closer I could have been more efficient the preceding days and probably gotten through the dark days without any trouble.

Thank you for sharing.
Yes it does make a lot of sense to just make sure that a good battery bank is available and just use a few litres everyday if overcast weather persists.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Drek4

... are deep cycle marine batteries so much better than car batteries?

Deep cycle lead acid batteries typically have fewer but thicker internal plates than a cranking battery. This means that they can handle more charge/discharge cycles than a cranking battery but due to the reduced total surface area of the plates they can't typically match a cranking battery in delivering peak amps.

Most lithium iron batteries behave like deep cycle batteries, favoring cycle life over delivering peak amps.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

Deep cycle lead acid batteries typically have fewer but thicker internal plates than a cranking battery. This means that they can handle more charge/discharge cycles than a cranking battery but due to the reduced total surface area of the plates they can't typically match a cranking battery in delivering peak amps.

Most lithium iron batteries behave like deep cycle batteries, favoring cycle life over delivering peak amps.

Well another vote for lithium it seems, hard to argue with so many positive feedback for this alternative.
Thank you!

[Rumrace]

Windsor Ontario is building a lithium battery factory to support the auto industry boom for electric cars and trucks.
I’m looking forward to seeing consumer products promised.
I have no use for acid lead batteries. I’ve owned way to many. I still have a 90amp crank cause it’s newish wintered indoors on wood with a trickle. My other batteries are capable of starting the motor no problem. I boosted the old crank battery with one.
I’m looking at getting the fridge and freezer calibrated.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Windsor Ontario is building a lithium battery factory to support the auto industry boom for electric cars and trucks.
I’m looking forward to seeing consumer products promised.
I have no use for acid lead batteries. I’ve owned way to many. I still have a 90amp crank cause it’s newish wintered indoors on wood with a trickle. My other batteries are capable of starting the motor no problem. I boosted the old crank battery with one.
I’m looking at getting the fridge and freezer calibrated.

That is great to know that we will finally have lithium batteries build right here in Canada.
Thank you for your input and the good news!

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Drek4

Very good point, thank you, never thought of that.

The only reasonable solution I have seen for this problem is to have a vertical axis wind turbine mounted adjacent to the mast where it won’t cost much shade on solar panels aft.

[carstenb]

Look at it correctly. I've described our set up and I can tell you that while at anchor we NEVER run out of juice.
As one Electrical engineer said after studying our system (he wanted to up grade his): Carsten, you charge FROM 12.6 A - almost everyone else charges TO 12.6 A

So the real problem is when you are sailing and have everything going full blast

Chartplotter - 5AH
other instruments - 5 AH
Autopilot - 8-10 aH (heavy weather)
fridge - 2 AH
Freezer 2AH
Sundry everything else 4AH
Total 28-30AH

or 700-750AH per day

No system is going to keep up with this. Start the engine every 4 hours and life will be good.

At anchor, you'll use somewhere between 120 and 180AH depending on your television habits etc.

Although if you are thinking air conditioning - you'll need at totally different set up


Best to go with rigid panel - the flex ones are not ideal

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Look at it correctly. I've described our set up and I can tell you that while at anchor we NEVER run out of juice.
As one Electrical engineer said after studying our system (he wanted to up grade his): Carsten, you charge FROM 12.6 A - almost everyone else charges TO 12.6 A

So the real problem is when you are sailing and have everything going full blast

Chartplotter - 5AH
other instruments - 5 AH
Autopilot - 8-10 aH (heavy weather)
fridge - 2 AH
Freezer 2AH
Sundry everything else 4AH
Total 28-30AH

or 700-750AH per day

No system is going to keep up with this. Start the engine every 4 hours and life will be good.

At anchor, you'll use somewhere between 120 and 180AH depending on your television habits etc.

Although if you are thinking air conditioning - you'll need at totally different set up


Best to go with rigid panel - the flex ones are not ideal

That is a lot of juice when full blast at sailing. Looks like 3x 200ah batteries would be a much more viable alternative, to reduce engine usage to a minimum, at worst case can add another, but best to see how this would go first.
The air conditioning is just if have an extended period of time hot, humid, over cast weather with little wind and then would just dock in a marina, if one is close by of course.
Several seem to prefer rigid panels, seems logical that they would be more durable.

Thank you very much for that detailed consumption data.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by Adelie

The only reasonable solution I have seen for this problem is to have a vertical axis wind turbine mounted adjacent to the mast where it won’t cost much shade on solar panels aft.

Good thing to keep in mind, if ever I go that route.
Thank you!

[Rumrace]

My panels are made in Flint Michigan and are flexible. They have the contract for the international space station.
There rigid panels are a flex panel in an aluminum frame.
Their panels are printed in gas chambers on a conveyor on a continuous sheet of stainless.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

My panels are made in Flint Michigan and are flexible. They have the contract for the international space station.
There rigid panels are a flex panel in an aluminum frame.
Their panels are printed in gas chambers on a conveyor on a continuous sheet of stainless.

That is great to know, wasn't aware of this.
Thank you!

[Na Mara]

Carsten your consumption figures are a bit on the high side if you ask me for a standard cruiser. I count on roughly double my anchor usage including the autopilot when underway.

Offshore the plotter is often running dark (screen illumination off), the depth sounder is off, the radar is on standby, etc. Mostly all you need is your AIS, the occasional GPS fix, your VHF and autopilot plus tricolour.

Also in heavy weather a wind gen will be pumping out 20+ amps (assuming it’s a good one that doesn’t cut out over a certain wind speed) so they tend to work well with autopilots, ramping up production just as the pilot increases consumption. That’s not so much the case after the blow has gone through where the sea state lags the lull in wind but still on the whole the autopilots power usage will generally coincide with the wind gens power output.

Alternatively you can fit a hydro generator that will produce 15-25 amps so long as the boat is moving. I’m not doing this as I am the typical 85:15 sailor and I want something that produces power more than 15% of the time, but if you are regularly doing long trips then a hydro generator can be worth the trouble.