Question about battery power

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Drek4

Thank you for the information.
I will have to research a little more before opting to change from air cool to water cool thought. Seems like time consuming, but maybe I'm wrong.

OUr system from Isotherm is fairly simple - the cooling element is the bottom part of the drain from the kitchen sink and sits in the water. It wasn't all that costly and it means our fridge doesn't run continuously

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by Drek4

Just curious about how many batteries do you use in your power grid on your sailboat and if this is enough for your usage. I have seen many people sailing with solar panels and 1 or 2 batteries for their power grid, are deep cycle marine batteries so much better than car batteries?
I was thinking of purchasing 2x solar panels 130/145 watts with a 400w wind generator to supply the batteries, but I want to avoid as much as possible turning on the engine to supply the batteries.

Sounds like you are just getting started on your learning. There's lots of learning to do. One thing you'll find here in Canada is that a wind generator onboard is mostly decoration. We don't generally have strong enough consistent enough winds to put out much more than 5 or 6amps. you're better to invest in quality solar panels. More battery is always better specially if its FLA as you only have 30-40% of the battery to work with.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by akopac

Unplug from the dock, use the boat for a 24 Hr day and see what your consumption is. Plan on rebuilding the frig./freezer box if you haven’t. Just my 2 cents. What’s cheaper foam insulation or batteries and charging resources?

Reducing consumption is almost always cheaper and easier than providing more power.

For example:
- When looking at laptop and cell chargers, disconnect them from power when not needed for actual charging as they will still use a few watts simply by being plugged in.
- Convert lights to LED (much lower wattage) and only use the lights you actually need.

Do you have the boat and are using it or is this planning?
- If you are using it the idea of disconnecting from shore power for a day and using it as if you are anchored out, is the best option. Just need to put a meter inline from the battery bank (assuming the existing battery bank can handle a days operation)
- If you don't have the boat, it would be best to up size by 20-25% in case there are electrical loads you didn't realize were present.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Sounds like you are just getting started on your learning. There's lots of learning to do. One thing you'll find here in Canada is that a wind generator onboard is mostly decoration. We don't generally have strong enough consistent enough winds to put out much more than 5 or 6amps. you're better to invest in quality solar panels. More battery is always better specially if its FLA as you only have 30-40% of the battery to work with.

Problem with a wind generator is there is a fairly limited wind range where they are useful:
- At low wind speeds, they won't generate much of anything.
- At high wind speeds, they have to be locked down so they don't tear themselves apart.

Solar, particularly in the tropics, will generate power pretty reliably.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by carstenb

OUr system from Isotherm is fairly simple - the cooling element is the bottom part of the drain from the kitchen sink and sits in the water. It wasn't all that costly and it means our fridge doesn't run continuously

That could always be an option.

Thank you!

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Sounds like you are just getting started on your learning. There's lots of learning to do. One thing you'll find here in Canada is that a wind generator onboard is mostly decoration. We don't generally have strong enough consistent enough winds to put out much more than 5 or 6amps. you're better to invest in quality solar panels. More battery is always better specially if its FLA as you only have 30-40% of the battery to work with.

Thanks for the information, but it will be mostly in the tropics I plan on sailing it. I will certainly go with lithium.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Reducing consumption is almost always cheaper and easier than providing more power.

For example:
- When looking at laptop and cell chargers, disconnect them from power when not needed for actual charging as they will still use a few watts simply by being plugged in.
- Convert lights to LED (much lower wattage) and only use the lights you actually need.

Do you have the boat and are using it or is this planning?
- If you are using it the idea of disconnecting from shore power for a day and using it as if you are anchored out, is the best option. Just need to put a meter inline from the battery bank (assuming the existing battery bank can handle a days operation)
- If you don't have the boat, it would be best to up size by 20-25% in case there are electrical loads you didn't realize were present.

Thank you for this information also.
Planning stage for now, to make sure a proper budget is made for all upgrade costs required, other than replacing rigging, sails, electronics, mast foot holds or items already on the sailboat.
I plan on installing 3x 200ah lithium batteries and according to the calculation information you kindly shared with me, I require 2.2x 200ah deep cycle standard batteries.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Problem with a wind generator is there is a fairly limited wind range where they are useful:
- At low wind speeds, they won't generate much of anything.
- At high wind speeds, they have to be locked down so they don't tear themselves apart.

Solar, particularly in the tropics, will generate power pretty reliably.

Yes I agree with you and many others, that a wind generator is not worth the price in exchange of the return it will give.

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Problem with a wind generator is there is a fairly limited wind range where they are useful:
- At low wind speeds, they won't generate much of anything.
- At high wind speeds, they have to be locked down so they don't tear themselves apart.

Solar, particularly in the tropics, will generate power pretty reliably.

True of many wind generators but not all. Superwind units continue generating all the way up to hurricane force winds.

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Sounds like you are just getting started on your learning. There's lots of learning to do. One thing you'll find here in Canada is that a wind generator onboard is mostly decoration. We don't generally have strong enough consistent enough winds to put out much more than 5 or 6amps. you're better to invest in quality solar panels. More battery is always better specially if its FLA as you only have 30-40% of the battery to work with.

5A over 24 hours is 120Ah which in a 12V system is about 1.4kWh of daily generation which is about what you get from a 350W solar installation. That should be more than enough for most cruisers. Either your being too generous in your output claims for the wind gens or the systems your talking about suffer from the problem I mentioned earlier of insufficient battery reserve to smooth out the boom bust nature of wind energy and are thereby dumping or braking to spill excess energy

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

5A over 24 hours is 120Ah which in a 12V system is about 1.4kWh of daily generation which is about what you get from a 350W solar installation. That should be more than enough for most cruisers. Either your being too generous in your output claims for the wind gens or the systems your talking about suffer from the problem I mentioned earlier of insufficient battery reserve to smooth out the boom bust nature of wind energy and are thereby dumping or braking to spill excess energy

If you are mostly in trade wind areas and you don't anchor behind islands protected from the wind maybe a wind generator can make sense.

Most won't generate anything below 4-7kts (varies by model).

At 10kts, they might be generating 2amps.

5-6amps isn't until you get up around 15-20kts.

And even if the thing doesn't fly apart, long before you reach hurricane force, the noise will have the neighbors wanting to tear it apart.

[bensolomon]

I bought a battery operated rv fridge fan from Amazon. One d cell for a whole year. Also, I have lined the inside of my box with some insulation that came with our frozen fish order from alaska. I have that stuff on the wall of the icebox that is closest to the hull side. Also, I cut two pieces of that same insulation and I place it on top of the food before I close the lid.

Just those two things have dramatically reduced my power consumption.

Also, I put two Frozen 32 oz bottles of water in the fridge to take up space and be a cold sink.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by bensolomon

I bought a battery operated rv fridge fan from Amazon. One d cell for a whole year. Also, I have lined the inside of my box with some insulation that came with our frozen fish order from alaska. I have that stuff on the wall of the icebox that is closest to the hull side. Also, I cut two pieces of that same insulation and I place it on top of the food before I close the lid.

Just those two things have dramatically reduced my power consumption.

Also, I put two Frozen 32 oz bottles of water in the fridge to take up space and be a cold sink.

Yes I did read an energy conservation thing about refrigerator/freezers, it's the air in them that cools the fastest, so the more product you have inside and the less air, your compressor will activate less frequently, you just have to make sur not to block the cooling vents.

[mstr_cmdr]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

You have a lot of research to do on that. There are four or five different battery chemistries, a dozen different battery sizes, several ways to configure them, and twenty or more manufacturers. And that's just the "drop in" style. You could even build your own.

At this point nearly everyone agrees wind turbines are useless compared to solar panels.

More solar more better. But you'll want to do a power budget to figure out how much you use in a day.

Well, I don't agree about your comment re wind turbines - both wind and solar are very useful, either individually or combined.
No sun but 25-30kts of trade winds - I am thankful I have my 400w wind generator providing a constant 15A input.
No wind but sun shining - I am thankful I have my 1300w PV arrays providing an average of 20A input for about 6 hours.
When I have neither sun nor wind - the 7.6kVA genset provides the necessary power.
In my part of the world, most cruising yachts have both wind and solar, and/or back-up genset (portable or fixed installation).
Nothing is useless on a yacht unless it is never used, broken (and remains so) or not fit-for-purpose.

[Drek4]

Originally Posted by mstr_cmdr

Well, I don't agree about your comment re wind turbines - both wind and solar are very useful, either individually or combined.
No sun but 25-30kts of trade winds - I am thankful I have my 400w wind generator providing a constant 15A input.
No wind but sun shining - I am thankful I have my 1300w PV arrays providing an average of 20A input for about 6 hours.
When I have neither sun nor wind - the 7.6kVA genset provides the necessary power.
In my part of the world, most cruising yachts have both wind and solar, and/or back-up genset (portable or fixed installation).
Nothing is useless on a yacht unless it is never used, broken (and remains so) or not fit-for-purpose.

It seems that wind generators are a very controversial form of power.
Thank you for your input.