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**Ex-Calif** · 01-05-2012, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Lee

Oh. In case I wasn't clear - I think anytime you have guests staying overnight or longer a List or booklet (whatever you want to call it) is probably a good idea. As I age, I realize I need a list for the things I've known how to do for years - I just keep forgetting to do them! how can I expect a newbie to deal with most boaty things that are going to be completely new to him/her. The contents of such Lists deals with safety too. Cheers,
Bill

I think the main reason I am adverse to a "comprehensive" list is that the safety stuff can get buried.

I do a safety briefing for all new people on the boat. I cover life vests, when they are mandatory vs. optional. I prefer closed toed shoes for newbies - it is not funny how many foot injuries happen on boats and I always wear closed toed when racing. I talk about one hand for the boat at all times, not going forward of the mast (and especially the genny sheets) until one knows what happens in a tack and the primary rules of docking which includes no jumping to shore and never getting between the boat and the dock.

People can't remember 8 pages of rules and the things I need them to remember in the begining need to be simple and safety oriented. The only real "convenience" item I cover is how to use the head, but no one remembers that until they've done it so it gets covered again at the necessary time.

For multi day trips provisioning is covered in advance - who pays for what and what to bring. We probably cover housekeeping at the end of the first day. I do cover in advance what to bring, usually one bag per person plus a sleeping bag. It is amazing how many freak out when I tell them there will likely be no internet coverage.

And for day sails and overnights I specify no beer in bottles. Disposal is a pita. Hard liquor in bottles OK, decent wine can be had in boxes now but I am not hard over on that.

Sailor g · 01-05-2012, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

If I invite someone to my house they dont pay rent, they dont buy fuel for my stove, they dont pay for electricity. I dont count the soap bars used or ration the beer or soda.

If the shower breaks or the toilet clogs they dont have to fix it or pay to have it fixed.

If we provision a bbq together thats cool. If they invute us for dinner that is cool. I do expect good company and to not be taken advantage of. Some folks dont get to come back.

No different on the boat.

+2 Eight pages of rules sounds more like crew or strangers rather than good friends. I would never change friends to come to my home either (ours usually ask what they can bring). And moreover, crew is working-taking watches so I wouldn't charge them either. They can bring special food for themselves but I would never profit from crew helping me. If it's business-then a contract is needed.

I would be more concerned that they couldn't recall all 8 pages when needed. I think a small placard in the head is more polite and useful- a use as you go so to speak. If I have colleagues coming over - a short email works on what to wear and bring (hat, sunscreen, etc) and we give a short safety conversation. We've had friends travel with us a week but they have been on many times so we all were confident we could all manage or else we wouldn't bring them. I would never want to make myself or others miserable by bringing them on a long trip only to not have fun.

SailboatLarry · 01-05-2012, 21:54

Quote:

#5. Cookies should only be tossed from the leeward rail.

Crap I just took a number 5!!!

Honestly as a singlehanded sailor. my guests only need to know how to pee/poop everything else I dont trust them to do without direction.

It is your boat! Like it or not you are singlehanding!!! Sure you can tell someone to grab that sheet.Or send them to the foredeck! Ultimatly they are only your extra arms. I would rather have an idiot who knows nothing on my boat. thn an expert who thinks he knows it all.

Sorry just me chiming in.

Ram · 02-05-2012, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailboatLarry

I would rather have an idiot who knows nothing on my boat. thn an expert who thinks he knows it all.

Sorry just me chiming in.

i would like to have the expert, if hes truly one !

i can learn somthing from him

**Dockhead** · 02-05-2012, 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

My rules:

#1. Boat shoes only.
#2. Never refer to a line by its color.
#3. Three-wrap minimum on the self-tailers.
#4. All sailors sit when using the head.
#5. Cookies should only be tossed from the leeward rail.
#6. Lifejackets are required whenever the foredeck is wet.
#7. Put the strap around your neck before using my binoculars.
#8. Don't trim sails without looking at the sails.
#9. Don't camp in the companionway.
#10. Unless there's a fire, please avoid interrupting me when I'm reading.

When students are aboard I add the following two rules:

#11. Turn all cellphones off for the duration of the voyage.
#12. No posting of photos of this vessel or its crew on facebook.

Much the same as mine.

A lot of this conversation is about the nature of hospitality. I'm with those who find it rather self-defeating to offer hospitality and then take it back, by requiring contributions and so forth.

Why in the world do you invite anyone on board, except for the reason of wanting to share with them what you have? So that they will have fun and relax, and so that you can enjoy their company? Would you give someone a gift, and hand a page of rules out with it at the same time? I don't even ask contributions from crew found anonymously on the Internet.

Most people worth having around will instinctively reciprocate, one way or another, and sooner or later. My guests -- and I have a lot of them; that's why I bought a larger boat -- usually never let me pay in restaurants in ports; usually buy most of the provisions and bottles. But they also invite me to their own homes (one anonymous Internet crew member, not even a friend, saved me a fortune in hotel bills one summer) or boats. They often pitch in when there's some hard labor to be done. The wife of one guest did a total spring cleaning of my boat, scrubbed out both heads from sole to headliner, vacuumed the whole boat, cleaned the oven and stove and scrubbed down the galley, one day in port while the rest of us were on shore. But I don't expect or request any of this -- it comes naturally to the kind of people I invite.

What goes around comes around, except when you start to calculate and worry about whether someone is not quite reciprocating enough. It defeats the whole purpose, in my opinion. True freeloaders are pretty rare, in my experience (never had one on my boat). Those you simply don't invite back.

I.Grind · 02-05-2012, 05:40

Bash,

I am curious about your never refer to a line by its color rule, isn't that sort of the point of having different colored lines? Let's imagine you invite me out sailing, it's my first time on your boat so I don't know how everything is rigged. You ask me to ease the out haul, so I go to the mass of clutches on the cabin top, which are not labelled (or the labels are unreadable, as is often the case). So I look to the end of the boom to see what color line is attached to the clew. It has been my experience that usually by this time the skipper chimes in with "The red one in the second clutch." or something to that effect.

Maybe your boat is better labelled than boats I crew on, but UV takes its toll wherever you are. It's nice to refer to a line by its proper name, but in an emergency, like blowing the vang because you are rounding up, wouldn't want you're newbie guest to say "you mean the orange one?" rather than blow the jib halyard by accident?

Yes, I understand that these examples are more likely to happen racing than cruising, but they are just examples that readily came to mind. I have never had to blow the vang cruising, but we do it a lot when racing.

So why use colored lines at all? White, or "natural" look so much nicer anyways, and it will save you a rule. Not to pick on you or anything, it's just been bugging me since you posted. I just don't understand. Am I missing something here?

mbianka · 02-05-2012, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

Eight pages? I've chartered boats for a week with less paperwork than that!

LOL We have a charter in the Exumas coming up. I checked the pages sent to us and there's only four.

Though since this is our tenth plus charter there was nothing on the pages we did not already know. But, I could see how you might need more info for landlubbers who will be coming on board for the first time.

Bash · 02-05-2012, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.Grind

Bash,

I am curious about your never refer to a line by its color rule, isn't that sort of the point of having different colored lines? Let's imagine you invite me out sailing, it's my first time on your boat so I don't know how everything is rigged. You ask me to ease the out haul, so I go to the mass of clutches on the cabin top, which are not labelled (or the labels are unreadable, as is often the case). So I look to the end of the boom to see what color line is attached to the clew. It has been my experience that usually by this time the skipper chimes in with "The red one in the second clutch." or something to that effect.

Maybe your boat is better labelled than boats I crew on, but UV takes its toll wherever you are. It's nice to refer to a line by its proper name, but in an emergency, like blowing the vang because you are rounding up, wouldn't want you're newbie guest to say "you mean the orange one?" rather than blow the jib halyard by accident?

Yes, I understand that these examples are more likely to happen racing than cruising, but they are just examples that readily came to mind. I have never had to blow the vang cruising, but we do it a lot when racing.

So why use colored lines at all? White, or "natural" look so much nicer anyways, and it will save you a rule. Not to pick on you or anything, it's just been bugging me since you posted. I just don't understand. Am I missing something here?

I'm colorblind. And I don't round up. Ever.

zeehag · 02-05-2012, 07:09

full time cruisers boats ARE their homes,f or the most part.
rules--you break it, you pay to fix or do it yourself asap now.
dont piss off kat--boat belongs to him and you are the intruder.
you sign an imaginary waiver when stepping on board--if you fall into drink, dont drink.
if you stub and break your toe--suck it up. you have 9 more. (we will tape it for ye, dont whine)
if you cannot stand watch, go away.
even my momma knows these rules, as her uncle taught us well.
do NOT whistle on board--it DOES bring a gale. if you dont want to sail in a gale, dont whistle.
no drugs
no booze while underway
if ye dont know what to do -- aint the good ship lollypop but is a fun trip, ASK. cat will tell ye how to handle yourself..if he cannot talk at that time, ask me.
NOTHING leaves boat--no pix on fazepoo, no splainations to anyone or anything....like vegas--what happens here stays here....
wanna go sailing??
oh, did i say i dont have GUESTS?? i have CREW. there is a HUGE difference. i actually only have one rule--you break or clog it--you repair it. oh yes--dont waste the water.....

Blue Crab · 02-05-2012, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bash

... And I don't round up. Ever.

zeehag · 02-05-2012, 07:21

Bash · 02-05-2012, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Careful about whistling up a gale, BC.

Seriously, there are only two reasons for an unintentional roundup. You're either over-canvassed, or a gust has caught you by surprise.

Either of those mistakes are rookie mistakes, and shouldn't happen to an experienced skipper. I'm especially insistent that a roundup is never the boat's fault. Blaming a roundup on your boat is like blaming bad manners on your ancestry.

Please excuse the thread drift. Perhaps some folks should add another rule to their lists: no rounding up.

sailorboy1 · 02-05-2012, 13:36

I'll getting a little worried now. I have a new guest coming to the boat tomorrow who I have never met, let alone sailed with. Someone who sailed 30 years ago and only on small boats.

I don't have any written rules .............. do I need to stay up tonight and get to writing? Or should I just toss him over it he makes a mistake?

There is one thing I always tell guests, go slow so you don't get hurt as I've decided it is cheaper to just kill you than risk bringing back someone who has gotten hurt on the boat!