Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[daletournier]

Hi WifeyB, I also enjoyed your story, happy it's working well for you, and thanks for adding clarity to your views.

In regards to attacking marriage, I don't think a majority of posters that are offering alternative opinions here say all marriage and relationships fail (I'm not) obviously some are successful. I certainly question our programmed ideas of marriage/relationships and ask is there a better way? but I'm not everyone.

This brings up another point, definition of success, what one person deems a success another may not, just staying
together for some may mean success for some, regardless of whether they like each other or not, for others it may be hell, but hey we stayed together! Personally I haven't seen alot of success, I've looked but don't see it, maybe my definition of success is the problem. BTW I don't feel cynical or negative, quite happy mostly, just see the world abit different.

Also, those that say relationships that consider money implications are doomed!!! I'm assuming the poster is implying there is a lack of trust or commitment if such things as money (who brings what) are discussed.
Does this lack of commitment/trust then also apply to not saying "until death do us part?" I'm fully committed until I'm not! I'm not saying yours or Anns vows are wrong, in fact I agree with them BUT interesting how arguments get applied to some areas and not others.

I think Pelagic mentioned (I could be wrong) a spouse( in this case male) has an obligation to look after his partner financially after he passes. Who said? If a woman chooses to join you to go cruising at the cost of giving up financially planning for her future then it's your obligation/responsibility to provide? In a world of equality isn't a woman responsible for her own financial future, or it's different in this case? Some grey area maybe?

For the record I've set up my Will in no uncertain terms that my partner (not married) gets everything, I do this because I want her to have the best life possible, I've chosen to leave everything to her because that's what I want, not because it's an obligation!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

How to make a Superyacht feel like a 20 footer.....?
...Just be onboard when the Owner introduces the prenuptial to his fiance......

Personal experience?

Eventually it was signed and they are now celebrating 30 years of a wonderful relationship.

If so, then congrats!

You each bring something into a relationship, why not formalize it in a fair and loving manner?

Viewed idealistically, it's incongruous with a committed relationship and implies you are not truly committed. Viewed realistically, it makes total sense, and is perhaps a no-brainer if you have minor children from a previous marriage. But it's not a one-way deal and wouldn't be upheld by a court if it was. Your spouse is generally guaranteed a certain amount of your assets and/or income upon dissolution, but in an amount less than what they would be anticipated to receive in a divorce proceeding. Sounds more like a contract, i.e. a bargained for exchange between two parties, and less like a prelude to a marriage!

Which kinda takes us back to John61's point, with no disrespect intended to the institution of marriage itself. But with two middle-aged people wanting to go off sailing together, no minor children, financially self-supporting (either individually or as a couple), what exactly is the point of getting married? In this particular example, it's the nuptials that are making the prenup awkward and potentially damaging to the relationship.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Now I shouldn't be interested in what single men are doing, but this thread has cropped up on the portal so often lately that curiosity got the better of me .

As background information, I have been in a happy relationship for a few decades now. I thought I would share a couple of simple concepts that I consider are vital in helping any kind of relationship run smoothly: "be kind" and "don't sweat the small stuff" . I think that notion is a good basis for all sorts of personal relationships, short or long term, whatever your preference (I recognise that a long term partnership does not necessarily suit everyone and some people simply function best and are most content on their own).

Some of the attitudes expressed in this thread have astonished me. This whole notion of women in an equal relationship being supported is I think the root of many of the issues raised. This puts the relationship in an entirely different category right from the start.

If one partner quits work to raise children (the traditional reason women needed financial support) then certainly help is needed, but otherwise it just sounds plain peculiar. I don't personally know one single female that is being supported for any reason other than child rearing, present or past. This will knock many careers and women have often continued the homemaker role rather than returning to the workforce, especially when earning capacity is knocked badly having been out of the workforce for some time. I see this rarely though with younger generations. Women simply go back to work after having kids.

The strong impression I have from reading the majority of posts in this thread is that many men consider that women are crafty gold diggers. Guys, how were these women supporting themselves prior to you meeting them? Were they simply hopping from one bed to another? Are are you selecting women who have no means of supporting themselves or are you the ones insisting you support them and pay them an allowance for living with you?

SWL

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The strong impression I have from reading the majority of posts in this thread is that many men consider that women are crafty gold diggers.
SWL

Hi SWL...I am sure you scanned a lot of posts....Actually those embittered indiviuals that feel like above..... are thankfully a minority.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by daletournier

In a world of equality isn't a woman responsible for her own financial future, . . . ?

THIS is exactly where things start getting confusing for so many these days, imho. For women to be sure, and also for men. And it's also why expectation, entitlement and obligation -- whatever the reason -- seems inapposite to the idea of gender equality. Not that there's anything wrong with one partner supporting the other for pragmatic or sensible reasons, but gender equality & expectations based on gender alone are mutually exclusive concepts.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi SWL...I am sure you scanned a lot of posts....Actually those embittered indiviuals that feel like above..... are thankfully a minority.

It is 7:40 here and still pitch black outside so I have made a pot of tea and curled up to indulge in some reading, so yes, I scanned lots of them . "Majority" was an exaggeration, but it was still a large number of those contributing to the thread.

Best advice I came across here:

Originally Posted by Skuzzlebutt

If you want to rent, do it by the hour. Cheaper, safer, and won't make off with your money during the divorce.

PS What never ceases to give me a jolt is seeing Monte's posts cropping up, as occured earlier in this thread. It reinforces that life can be cut short at any moment. Such a waste to spend a chunk of precious time feeling embittered if that is what they are.

SWL

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The strong impression I have from reading the majority of posts in this thread is that many men consider that women are crafty gold diggers. Guys, how were these women supporting themselves prior to you meeting them? Were they simply hopping from one bed to another? Are are you selecting women who have no means of supporting themselves or are you the ones insisting you support them and pay them an allowance for living with you?
SWL

It sounds like you may have missed some posts, or missed what some were saying. I always thought of gold diggers as knowing exactly what they were doing and not trying to hide it. There are certain types of men who go for that I suppose. The women I met were not like that at all, had an independent if not feminist persona, and initially at least appeared self-sufficient and maybe they were? Was I supposed to ask for references from past boyfriends, for financial statements, and do formal background checks? I took them at face value. But their demands seemed completely inconsistent with their persona and took me off guard. I'm not even sure they believed their behavior was inappropriate, let alone why. But they definitely felt entitled, and also victimized to some degree. Maybe they had been spoiled as kids or treated poorly in previous relationships? Maybe something happened that made them untrusting of men? Should I have asked for psychological evaluations as well?

Embittered? No, just grateful I didn't stick around. Who knows, maybe I even learned something.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi SWL...I am sure you scanned a lot of posts....Actually those embittered indiviuals that feel like above..... are thankfully a minority.

I'm glad you pointed that out Pelagic. It's been suggested that us guys are the problem, attracting gold diggers, weak women, creepy women etc.... this just isn't true, give us guys some cred!! We aren't all neanderthal, knuckle dragging chauvanists! You have the opportunity to have a conversation with some decent guys about their views and experiences.

Things change, people change, feelings change, fear creeps in. There is no limit to a humans ability to delude themselves. And this is very true during a marriage breakup, I deserve!!!

Relationship break ups are a painful messy business and some spouses go for the jugular, that doesn't mean that they went into the relationship with gold digger intentions.

I very much doubt my partner would try to financially screw me, it's just not her, I really believe this, she's a very proud, strong, honorable person, BUT life happens and things change, I've deliberately set up my finances to protect myself, trusts, as well as other finance protecting strategies, which she is aware of. I have been divorced, and I have been sued (business) and taken financial hits from both. Now before you label me burnt or tainted, I am not, I I just don't believe in fantasy, I'm OK with real.

Also some solicitors have questionable morals, their intentions are to "win" the most for their clients and will advice their client to empty bank accounts denying a spouse his "fighting funds" (his words) this is before he even knows their is a fight. These attitudes from professionals as well as friends adds a whole new dimension to the situation.

Few women or men enter these relationships to "screw the other" but I assure you it happens and regularly....unfortunately.

The great thing about age is life experience, some become worn out and negative, some have a better life because they understand themselves and life a little better.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Skuzzlebutt

If you want to rent, do it by the hour. Cheaper, safer, and won't make off with your money during the divorce.

Are we talking about Sex or Love here?

Those of us who have been and still are happy with their partner for many years know the Sex is that non fattening dessert you share together, but Love is what keeps your spirit alive and vibrant.

You cannot Buy or Rent Love!

Nor do I believe that Love can truly be "unconditional"...

.. That is the spiel of romantic ostriches who are too lazy to face the reality that perhaps one day they may realise that they have chosen the wrong partner, .....or that their partner has come to that same conclusion.

You may Die to save someone you love(d) but should you live unhappily with them?

If all has failed to rekindle that mutual love, there should be the same honest commitment to dissolve that relationship ?

With that in mind, I have no problem with someone who has acquired considerable assetts as compared to their fiance, to take out an insurance policy in the form of a Prenuptial.

Hopefully it stays in the drawer until both decide to burn it.

[jpendoley]

As a single 58 year old guy, I could lament my chances of finding "the one", especially because I am behind the curve in amassing a comfortable retirement income. On the bright side though, I don't have to worry about all of these gold diggers apparently cruising the oceans searching for prey. If a woman falls in love with me it will be for reasons other than my financial status-maybe for something as frivolous as shared interests, a love of sailing and the out doors. Maybe my values?
Of course, if security is all she values I guess we wouldn't have too much in common any way.

[Olddan1943]

There are different types of security. The best is emotional security. Knowing two people can depend upon each other.

[jpendoley]

And the risk is you become vulnerable. If that trust is betrayed its hard to trust again. It does come down to ones ability to let go of past experiences and embrace new ones. Because some women are gold diggers, for example, not all are. Or if one person broke your heart, that does not guarantee the next one will as well. It's wise to be informed by the past, but foolish to be ruled by it.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Olddan1943

There are different types of security. The best is emotional security. Knowing two people can depend upon each other.

There is a TV show I enjoy called "Alone" where people compete in a wilderness survival competition (West Coast Vancouver Island).

Challenge is to outlast the other competitors 'alone'.

It is both a physical and psychological challenge and eventual winner is usually around 90 days.

This season they are testing family pairs (brothers, husband /wives. Father/son etc....
After about only 14 days it is down to just 3 teams or 6 people.....

I find it interesting how people handle challenges whether alone, or in a family team and it sort of relates to this discussion.

(Please no spoilers if you know how this Season ends)

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by jpendoley

And the risk is you become vulnerable. If that trust is betrayed its hard to trust again. It does come down to ones ability to let go of past experiences and embrace new ones. Because some women are gold diggers, for example, not all are. Or if one person broke your heart, that does not guarantee the next one will as well. It's wise to be informed by the past, but foolish to be ruled by it.

Yes yes yes, in a solid relationship two people must be vulnerable to and for each other, trusting each other forever.

I am not exciting nor do exciting things. I wear wrinkled clothes and I am laid back, like most men here, I suspect.

Yes, my last ex-wife believed in spending my money and saving her's. I sort of feel sorry for the new guy. LOL

[BandB]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Easiest thing I have ever done.

Wifey B: Easiest thing for us but was very difficult for us until we met and then it was easy. That's the thing, it can't be forced. If it's truly hard and feels forced, it's wrong.

It's like the couple that fights and breaks up and gets back together and then gets married and guess what? They fight still. Surprise? Not. But they seem shocked.

It was easy falling so madly in love with my hubby and every day since has been easy and I might add that we faced a very serious challenge during our dating year that included in one form or another sex, murder, intrigue, danger, criminals, law enforcement, government, and more and that we can't discuss in detail even today and even that was easy knowing we had each other. That was the one ground rule to all those involved that we would never be kept apart.

It's easy when it's right. It's not just hard when it's wrong, it's impossible.