Some questions about living aboard....

[BluePeter]

Good lord I'm surprised we're not best friends. Feel like
I'm reading my autobiography.

Just do it. Put the bike on deck, store the motorcycle.
Get a good heater--or two--

You can always change your mind after the first winter.
Get a small place without a lawn. Find a girlfriend who has a place on shore.
A little terra firma (if ya catch my drift) is nice once in a while.

You can take anything short term.
Then reassess.

Live the life you want to live. Rejoice. Repeat.
To the bon vivant!
Peter

[Rob19321]

There is for certain, 3 months of the year in Halifax that I'd say are close inhospitable for living aboard. If the marinas won't take you, one challenge will be sewage.
I recall the law is 1 or 3 miles offshore so plan to tank it for a few days and sail out to the mouth of the harbor once or twice a week.

This is one tiny concern, and it's -6 today with -16 in a few of the last few days... it isn't comfortable enough for me.

[Gingersnap]

Liveaboard is not easy to get. We were on the wait list for 8 years in California. One day before retirement, we got the call if we like to take it. We were third on the list. The first two people declined. We did a mad dash to sell our home and move on board which required a lot of downsizing. That was five years ago. And we are still downsizing….if we don’t touch it, there is no sense to clutter the space.

Whatever boat you choose, make sure it has headroom. Most advertisements do not mention headroom. My husband is 6’4” tall. Living on board requires good headroom.

Best wishes in your decision.

[Rob19321]

FYI - I am in Halifax and we spend much of the Summer (Well, 3 day weekends because we work) in Halifax Harbor and St Margaret's Bay.

If any one wants to connect after we launch in May, send me a note or post.

[David Mathis]

Living aboard year-round in the far north is much different than being south of the Chesapeake. As advised in another post, tenting the boat is just about mandatory in snow country but have you thought about getting on and off the boat after an ice storm or having several inches of snow? The dock will have to be shoveled. Slipping on the snow or ice and going into the icy water can have catastrophic consequences.

If you're serious about this, an insulated boat will be a great advantage. Most are not insulated but some of the larger trawlers have some heat exchange barrier. This won't be a weekend camping adventure, it's your permanent home, so don't think about basic survival with a sleeping bag and Sterno can inside a 25' sailboat. Are the marina bathrooms and showers open 24/7? Is an onsite laundry available? Is the marina close to shops and restaurants? Will the slip fees be less than renting a small apartment?

Do you want to do this to save rent money or do you want an adventure? Winters are long and cold in the north. The beauty of the first snowfall fades when the sun dips under the horizon at 4pm and the temperature stays below freezing for a couple weeks at a time with night temperatures far below freezing.

Based on the questions you're asking, this endeavor may not be the high point of your life. Get a lot more boating experience and spend some time living on a comfortable boat in a warmer climate before taking this step.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

Living aboard year-round in the far north is much different than being south of the Chesapeake. As advised in another post, tenting the boat is just about mandatory in snow country but have you thought about getting on and off the boat after an ice storm or having several inches of snow? The dock will have to be shoveled. Slipping on the snow or ice and going into the icy water can have catastrophic consequences.

All good points David. Wise words... although I did have to chuckle about your "far north" comment. For us Canadians, Halifax is considered the far south.

Everything is relative .

[R Hutcheson]

Originally Posted by TangoKVictor

Hi, so I am expecting a job offer in Halifax NS, I could sell my home and buy another one but I thought I might look into living aboard first for the following reasons;
1. Homes are expensive and I know it will burst, I don't want to buy something now for 359000 only to have it worth 239000 in 10 years. Good
2. Too many people getting wise to Van Lifers and causing **** for them. 5 years ago, boondocking and van life was under the radar now it seems like Government and Citizens are going out of their way to make life hard for these people. I guess bums on the street are better than working tax payers living in a van.
3. I always wanted a boat...
4. I hate mowing...
5. I don't feel like I need a lot of living space.
6. I'm tired of just living I want to live...

Some issues I think I will have;
1. Tools, Where do I put my tools?
2. Workshop\crafting place; My parents have a barn that I could probably build off and use as a shop for wood working but they are 2h out of Halifax
3. Motorcycle, what do I do with the motorcycle?
4. Mountain biking, what do I do with the mountain bike I still enjoy doing that for exercise and commuting to work.
5. Hiking and Camping, can my hiking and camping kit be used as my normal everyday boating kit? I am thinking sleeping bag instead of blankets, cooking kit instead of plates, etc... Maybe not an issue?
6. How do you get in and out of a kayak from a boat?
I do think I can work around these with some combination of self storage and family.

Some advantages
1. I don't think I will need a car, summer bike\motorcyle for commuting, winter transit
2. My I know how I will be spending my vacation time...
3. No housing tax, no mass depreciation when the bubble breaks, build skills, opportunities for adventure.
4. Less stuff!

Disadvantages
1. Cost? Maybe?
2. Laundry
3. Storage
4. It's all on me!
5. I could get myself killed

Other considerations
1. Storms.. What do I do when a storm comes? Hotel? Hunker down?
2. Heating a boat
3. How big? Nor'sea 27 or Warwick 42?
4. All the things I don't even know to consider...

So what am I getting myself into? and what else do I need to consider?
If I look at mortgage, property tax, utilities, car, ins, fuel, etc... how does it stack against, purchase cost, insurance, registration, storage fees, marina fees, maintenance, etc... Lets say I own the boat out right with no boat mortgage and lets say I have 25k to start and a 10k reserve.

Thank you in advance for any input and cheers!

Referencing numbers above:
1) Good thought, however boats are also way up and more so than houses in my opinion are definitely in a bubble. On the other hand, if you are not buying an expensive boat the total amount of the financial set back will be less.

2) That's a political question, I leave it to you.

3) Great reason, buy a boat.

4) Another good reason, hopefully you will find you enjoy boat maintenance.

5) Good, you won't have much on a boat.

6) Boat/House doesn't matter, your actions and how you define living will control this not the boat vs house.

1) Tools, depends on how many you have, but options are on the boat, in storage ashore or get rid of them.

2) Many days your boat will seem like a workshop, why go looking for additional projects, but hey, to each their own.

3) Motorcycle, park it on land, or get rid of it. You'll have to find out what options are available where you want to be.

4) Mountain bike, same as motorcycle above

5) Of course your camping gear will work

6) Carefully especially if it is cold, you will have to access the boats boarding arrangement and your own physical abilities to come up with a solution, you may occasionally get wet, and potentially very cold. Whatever you come up with you will get better using it with time.

1) Car or not depends on your needs and comfort requirements

2) Likely doing repairs/improvements on the boat, at least initially.

3) tax true, depreciation probably less dollars but likely greater on a percentage basis. Skills, if you do it yourself certainly, Adventure,try to avoid if possible, it's caused by poor planning or decision making.

4) Less stuff, probably, but we don't know how much you have.

1) Cost, you'll likely spend more than you anticipate

2) Laundry, lots of options, you'll have to find whats available there and what suits you.

3) Storage, of what?

4) Life is kind of like that, but as you probably don't perform 100% of your home repairs, you also don't have to perform 100% on a boat. And just as you learned the skills needed for life on land, you can do the same on the water. Learning from others is cheaper faster, and less dangerous than trying to make all the mistakes yourself. This is why pilots study other pilots crashes.

5) Death, possible but unlikely, you can also achieve this on your drive to work.

1) Storms, seek training/education and you will know the right answer for the conditions you will be facing. You may have noticed the shore is not entirely littered with wrecks, so keeping safe is probably simpler than you think, assuming the correct knowledge and preparation.

2) Heating, lots of options, electric at a marina, alcohol heaters, diesel heaters, some people still use coal or pellets, your camp stove will work in a small boat, just don't set it on fire or asphyxiate yourself. Again, you have to chose what is right for you.

3) Size, personal choice but generally things are cheaper on a smaller boat and more comfortable/convenient on a larger one. The one that speaks to you at the time is probably the right one for you.

4) Getting some training/experience is probably the best way to discover what you have not considered, also read about it, a lot.

Cost, again up to you, if you need a really nice boat, and want it to be located in the fanciest marina right downtown, you're going to pay for the privilege. Or you can get a boat with camping style accommodations anchor up a creek somewhere, paddle back and forth and leave your bike chained to a tree, in which case you will spend almost nothing. You will likely fall somewhere between those extremes and where exactly will determine how much it is going to cost.

Consider finding a local sailing club or power squadron, and spend sometime there to learn more first hand. Look for a Facebook community for liveaboards in the area you are interested and try to meet some of them. Visit with them on their boats and ask them about the pro's and con's of their situation. If your really lucky you'll find someone similar to yourself already living aboard, or at least someone living the way you envision who can give solid insight into the real cost, of living aboard at that level.

Good luck

[captainwd40]

My recommendation:

Stay on land ...... boating ain't for you!

Cheers!

[Sailorman97]

Did it for 2 winters on a 50 footer. It was small. I could not imagine doing it on a 27 footer

Things to consider.

Water. You will need water and this will need to be carried to the boat.

Sewage: How will this be handled. If not on the boat where is the washroom

Showers: How will you keep clean

Mold: All boats sweat in the winter due to the extreme cold and the hot interior. You will get mold in behind all cushions touching the hull and anywhere clothes are touching the hull.

Frozen sheets: Unless you have a centerline queen ( a big boat) you will have your bedding against the side of the boat and it will freeze there.

Heat: You need at least 2 sources of heat. We used a 42,5k BTU hydronic Espar. If I did it again I would have 2 of them because when one breaks down you need another fast. Are you going electric. This is not cheap either. In Toronto we burned 100 liters of diesel fuel a week from Jan 1 to March 1 every single week. All of this fuel needs to be brought aboard. Your not doing that from a bicycle.

Power: You will need a generator. You will not keep an Espar going for very long with the FC units and the unit itself on pure battery of the power goes out. Don't think you are going to heat your boat with this generator unless it is really large. You will need 60 to 100 amps coming aboard to heat in the dead of winter.

Bubblers or Ice Eaters: I have seen people just let the boat freeze in. Not a good option. You need to keep the ice clear.

Covering the boat. You will need to cover the boat. It can not be heated unless you cover it. We had covered the boat, slipped insulated blankets between the shrink wrap and the hull and had insulated blankets covering the deck. We shrink wrap and we do it ourselves. Getting others to do this is very expensive.

Forget about living on the boat on the hard. You simply can not keep the boat warm enough to live. A 20 knot wind at -15c will suck the heat out faster than you can provide it.

Smell in your clothing. No matter what you do your clothing will pick up the smells of a boat. It is not pleasant for others.

Wife and I did winter liveaboard for 2 yrs. We would not do it again unless forced.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

Did it for 2 winters on a 50 footer. It was small. I could not imagine doing it on a 27 footer

Things to consider.

Water. You will need water and this will need to be carried to the boat.

Hose run under water to our slip from the clubhouse. Pull up our end from water and fill tanks.

Sewage: How will this be handled. If not on the boat where is the washroom

We have a portable pumpout cart with electric pump, no problem

Showers: How will you keep clean

Shower on our boat daily, Whats the problem ?

Mold: All boats sweat in the winter due to the extreme cold and the hot interior. You will get mold in behind all cushions touching the hull and anywhere clothes are touching the hull.

I keep hearing this but we've never experienced it. In fact we have to run a humidifier or the boat gets too dry. Of course our boat is insulated and properly vented under shrink wrap.

Frozen sheets: Unless you have a centerline queen ( a big boat) you will have your bedding against the side of the boat and it will freeze there.

Wrong again ! a properly insulated vessel with good heat distribution fixes this.

Heat: You need at least 2 sources of heat. We used a 42,5k BTU hydronic Espar. If I did it again I would have 2 of them because when one breaks down you need another fast. Are you going electric. This is not cheap either. In Toronto we burned 100 liters of diesel fuel a week from Jan 1 to March 1 every single week. All of this fuel needs to be brought aboard. Your not doing that from a bicycle.

The heat side of our a/c unit is straight electric furnace distributed through our boat with a duct network ... no problem

Power: You will need a generator. You will not keep an Espar going for very long with the FC units and the unit itself on pure battery of the power goes out. Don't think you are going to heat your boat with this generator unless it is really large. You will need 60 to 100 amps coming aboard to heat in the dead of winter.

We have a 2400Watt Yamaha generator on the dock. We've used it once since 1994. We typically run at about 22 amps but as high as 32amps when it gets really cold

Bubblers or Ice Eaters: I have seen people just let the boat freeze in. Not a good option. You need to keep the ice clear.

Yes we use bubblers ... no big deal

Covering the boat. You will need to cover the boat. It can not be heated unless you cover it. We had covered the boat, slipped insulated blankets between the shrink wrap and the hull and had insulated blankets covering the deck. We shrink wrap and we do it ourselves. Getting others to do this is very expensive.

It cost us $130 to shrink wrap our boat this yr. We do it ourselves and have never had insulated blankets,

Forget about living on the boat on the hard. You simply can not keep the boat warm enough to live. A 20 knot wind at -15c will suck the heat out faster than you can provide it.

Wouldn't even consider it even if I knew of any place that would let you do it (doubtful).

Smell in your clothing. No matter what you do your clothing will pick up the smells of a boat. It is not pleasant for others.

No smell in our boat. My first wife suffered from a severly compromised immune systems. Mold or anything that caused an odor would be life threatening. (She passed from an infected tooth). Boat odor is not acceptable and avoidable on a dry, clean boat.

Wife and I did winter liveaboard for 2 yrs. We would not do it again unless forced.

Been doing it since 1994 and will never again be a Dirt People.

Sounds to me like your boat was not prepared properly.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Been doing it since 1994 and will never again be a Dirt People.

Sounds to me like your boat was not prepared properly.

Your being quite presumptuous and a little snooty with your Dirt People comment.

Your boat looks like a steel hulled trawler type. where if you are not happy with the interior you just demo it and put a new one in with most of the parts and lumber from Home Depot. It likely has 2 inches of insulation on the inside of the hull and that is easy in a boat where you can just remove the interior and put it in the dumpster. We don't all have one of these and many of us would not want one but you do and that's great.

Hard to add 2 inches of foam insulation to a production blue water sailor with a stem to stern all teak interior that has a fit and finish similar to most people's dinning room furniture. Even harder to add it to a 27 ft sailboat or a 27 foot boat of any kind.


The OP is likely going to end up with a production boat of some sort. He will not be showering on a 27 footer. Even if he is on a 40 footer he will have limited water capacity and very limited head capacity. He will have almost no insulation. Since he has little to no insulation he will have condensation problems which will lead to boat smell and mold.

In other words, he will not be in your situation at all and so none of your solutions with the possible exception of the hose in the water are much good to him. You also did not get there in 1 year or even 2. The OP is talking about starting from scratch with no experience.

Can it be done? Of course. I know people who have lived on their boat for 20 yrs. All of them except 1 eventually moved ashore. All of the things I mentioned are real problems for him to consider.

To each their own. We can afford a house AND a boat and we have one of each. We will live on the boat in the Caribbean. Not in Canada.

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

Nice. I said it can be squalid. Not trying to be a naysayer. I don’t feel like I’m exactly living in squalor either. But there is that element to most of the live-aboards I know. It’s not for everyone. Seems like the people in my area with money enough to make their boat luxurious, whatever that means, just move ashore, where it’s far more luxurious for a lot less work and money.

This ^^^ We lived aboard because we sold out and were going to move east. We needed a couple more years of work. It was an experience for sure and it was not all bad but it is not easy and it is a lot of work.

I wake up in the morning and if its 28 below out like it was this morning I simply don't go out. That is not an option on a boat if you need to go get water or fuel.

Everyone I know who lives aboard can not afford to buy a house. As you said, some of it is pretty mean.

[goboatingnow]

I would agree with Sailorman, that outside of a basically custom built boat designed for liveaboards in very cold climates, a typically modern stock boat is simply not designed for winter living, by winter I means places that see stretches of 5 degrees C or colder air temperatures . In fact there's a lot of houses not very good at it either.

Hence I think , outside of people that are forced by circumstance to live on such boats , few people would willingly subject themselves to it long term . Boats are not primarily houses on the water, they are far too compromised for that to be good at it. Yes you can construct what is essentially a house floating on water and live on it all year round , Amsterdam demonstrates this exactly , but most of these house boats are only a boat in so much as it floats

The beauty of a boat is to get it to take you to a place that has warmer winters !!!

[goboatingnow]

Everyone I know who lives aboard can not afford to buy a house

I would disagree with you there, I know several people that can afford to live in a house but choose not to, but they don't live in climates that freeze !!. I think you have to seperate those choosing to live on a boat from those that Have to live on a boat . Being forced to live on a boat is not a great idea in my opinion. The housing agencies here, for example, would place you on a housing list as a resul,t as a boat is not regarded as a substitute for a house!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

Your being quite presumptuous and a little snooty with your Dirt People comment.

Your boat looks like a steel hulled trawler type. where if you are not happy with the interior you just demo it and put a new one in with most of the parts and lumber from Home Depot. It likely has 2 inches of insulation on the inside of the hull and that is easy in a boat where you can just remove the interior and put it in the dumpster. We don't all have one of these and many of us would not want one but you do and that's great.

Sorry, it's foam cored fiberglass hull

Hard to add 2 inches of foam insulation to a production blue water sailor with a stem to stern all teak interior that has a fit and finish similar to most people's dinning room furniture. Even harder to add it to a 27 ft sailboat or a 27 foot boat of any kind.

I've done it on two other boats with 2" blue foamboard cut into planks and glued.


The OP is likely going to end up with a production boat of some sort. He will not be showering on a 27 footer. Even if he is on a 40 footer he will have limited water capacity and very limited head capacity. He will have almost no insulation. Since he has little to no insulation he will have condensation problems which will lead to boat smell and mold.

Insulation is quite simple, I've done it on a C&C 37 and a 40' Trendsetter with the aforementioned blue foamboard

In other words, he will not be in your situation at all and so none of your solutions with the possible exception of the hose in the water are much good to him. You also did not get there in 1 year or even 2. The OP is talking about starting from scratch with no experience.

I too started from scratch. Imposing your limitiations on him makes little sense since you don't know him.

Can it be done? Of course. I know people who have lived on their boat for 20 yrs. All of them except 1 eventually moved ashore. All of the things I mentioned are real problems for him to consider.

To each their own. We can afford a house AND a boat and we have one of each. We will live on the boat in the Caribbean. Not in Canada.

Sold both houses and have no intention of returning to dirt

... Dirt People Scare Me