State of Living Aboard in Florida

[capn_billl]

That's a good price, i see lots of bridges though.

If i could get in, I would be interested.

[CaptJPMcGuire]

Originally Posted by ScottyMR

Sailorboy, Thanks for your comment.

I am curious about the legalities. I have an established land job with a large company that will transfer my payroll residency to Florida. And my intention is to reside in Florida as a resident. My understanding is that I need to behave like a Florida resident, including getting a FL drivers license, registering my car and boat there, registering to vote, etc. With all of that, I basically need a FL address. It sounds like a company called SBI is in the business of legitimately helping cruisers and RVs, etc establish residency, including helping the new Floridian file a declaration of residency at the courthouse. (St John's County maybe?)

I work remotely, so I will perform my "land job" from the boat...my home. Just like I do now in Georgia..except it is from my house (my home) in Georgia.

Are you aware of any legal problems with this strategy? If so, I really need to know about them.

Thanks in advance.

We never were live a-boards but did have our 38' Irwin at a private dock for three years. The tax man was inquiring about our 'status'. We did a lot of dancing for him--moved a few times. We really were only visiting the boat a few weeks at a time over many months but It got to be a hassle. There is no income tax in FL but they do make their money from Other Forms of TAX TAX TAX. Weather is better in SW Florida than NE or NW. But South George is as good as NE FL. But hell I'm in Rhode Island --so any place south of Savana is 'warm'.

[ScottyMR]

CaptJP,

Florida taxes:
Agreed they have to make their revenue somehow. What Florida has in high volume that few other states have is tourism tax. It relieves much of the citizens tax burden. And they have significant user taxes, like toll roads/bridges. Those are voluntary taxes. The user gets to decide whether to use/pay. Another big tax item in Florida is property tax. That's pretty much a local tax controlled by local voters. Some places it's high in Florida, other places, not so much. So again, the local tax payer gets to choose what's important to them. If they don't like high taxes, they can vote with their feet. If they DO like high taxes, they get to vote with their feet. I'm voting with my feet...I'm moving from a relatively high income tax state to a no income tax state.

Another phenomena this causes is that its more meaningful for high income people to live in no income tax states than it is low income people. It comes down to percentages. As more and more high income people move to Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc, those high income people will boost the economies of those states. Those people are the ones that tend to create jobs. It would behoove high tax states to not run off those people. It is really foolhardy IMO. (And now California is trying to build a tax iron curtain to curtail their citizen's freedom to leave..."Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!")

All in all, I think it is really productive for states and local governments to compete for tax payers. It makes for a great 50 state lab experiment. What works well and what doesn't? So the ability to control taxes more locally is really good IMO. That way Woodland can have exactly what he wants...he can have more taxes and in doing so donate towards those free things he values...albeit subject to politicians' "wisdom" and not his own. And I can have exactly what I want...Less taxes...so I will have more money to donate towards the causes I care about. We both care about others and creating a better world. But that is a freer way to decide based on our individual values.

I hope that's not too political. But it is pertinent to why people, in droves, are moving to Florida, and why marina space, anchoring, and living aboard in Florida is such a hot topic.

There ya go...ready, aim...
Scotty

[capn_billl]

Florida has its share of problems, but high taxes isn't one of them.

The boat tax is a big one, but once paid, it's done.

Knowing I'm going to be spending significant time there, i went ahead, and paid it.

Fortunately Florida has a reciprocal tax agreement with ny State so I don't have to pay twice.

There are States on the Eastern coast that have far worse "assault" tax collectors.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by ScottyMR

CaptJP,

Florida taxes:
Agreed they have to make their revenue somehow. What Florida has in high volume that few other states have is tourism tax. It relieves much of the citizens tax burden. And they have significant user taxes, like toll roads/bridges. Those are voluntary taxes. The user gets to decide whether to use/pay. Another big tax item in Florida is property tax. That's pretty much a local tax controlled by local voters. Some places it's high in Florida, other places, not so much. So again, the local tax payer gets to choose what's important to them. If they don't like high taxes, they can vote with their feet. If they DO like high taxes, they get to vote with their feet. I'm voting with my feet...I'm moving from a relatively high income tax state to a no income tax state.

Another phenomena this causes is that its more meaningful for high income people to live in no income tax states than it is low income people. It comes down to percentages. As more and more high income people move to Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc, those high income people will boost the economies of those states. Those people are the ones that tend to create jobs. It would behoove high tax states to not run off those people. It is really foolhardy IMO. (And now California is trying to build a tax iron curtain to curtail their citizen's freedom to leave..."Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!")

All in all, I think it is really productive for states and local governments to compete for tax payers. It makes for a great 50 state lab experiment. What works well and what doesn't? So the ability to control taxes more locally is really good IMO. That way Woodland can have exactly what he wants...he can have more taxes and in doing so donate towards those free things he values...albeit subject to politicians' "wisdom" and not his own. And I can have exactly what I want...Less taxes...so I will have more money to donate towards the causes I care about. We both care about others and creating a better world. But that is a freer way to decide based on our individual values.

I hope that's not too political. But it is pertinent to why people, in droves, are moving to Florida, and why marina space, anchoring, and living aboard in Florida is such a hot topic.

There ya go...ready, aim...
Scotty

How do high income citizens boost the economy of a no income tax state when they move there? By hiring servants?

They are not going to start local businesses since they already have a high income stream from their previous residence. I just don’t see the mechanism whereby a wealthy hedge fund manager enriches a state where she doesn’t pay any taxes. How does the Trump clan moving to Florida put any more money into state coffers? They make their money in other states and are taxed in those states, any income from Doral and Mar-a-Lago is free of income tax already.

And please don’t say it will trickle down as we have been waiting for that to happen since the days of Ronald Reagan and it still hasn’t happened.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

And please don’t say it will trickle down as we have been waiting for that to happen since the days of Ronald Reagan and it still hasn’t happened.

Sometimes, ..... It's better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

[Hudson Force]

Just to put things in perspective, we had a live aboard slip in Florida that had a price hike from $50/month to $80/month. We were only able to find a liveaboard slip at that marina because we bought a boat through the marina brokerage. That was in 1973!

Later we were attempting to move to a different Florida marina and they had a cap on the number of living aboard individuals. Because we were then a family of four, we could not get a slip unless two or three vessels left their slip contract at the same time. That was 1986.

I don't think there has actually been much change except for the rate of inflation. Back in the early '70's overnight slips were 10 to 15 cents per foot.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Sometimes, ..... It's better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

Well, show me the money. We just had a huge tax cut for the super rich and corporations, how much trickled down to regular working folk? It’s been a couple of years so where is the money?

So how do do high income earners moving into a no income tax state enrich that state? How do they put money into schools, bridges, water systems and police and corrections if they don’t pay tax? And their servants don’t pay tax either? How does that work?

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Well, show me the money. We just had a huge tax cut for the super rich and corporations, how much trickled down to regular working folk? It’s been a couple of years so where is the money?

I guess you haven't been paying attention the last four years.

Record unemployment, lowest fuel prices in decades, highest stock market ever.

Dementia Joe only been in office a couple
of months.......... fuel up 70-80 percent, unemployment up, building materials at an all time high. Stock market trending down. Inflation, record gov spending..... good job, got it.

[ScottyMR]

Woodland,

If you REALLY want to know, this is where to find out, because they explain it much better than I, and with much more authority...because they are/were highly educated scientists:

Read:
Milton Friedman
Thomas Sowell
Walter Williams

Each were professors of economics. One was a Nobel winner. Two were/are black. All were/are champions of the downtrodden. All have written a ton of books that explain the answers to your questions in simple ways that most all of us can understand. So that's a challenge. Will you read a different perspective? I know you have opinions. Everyone has one or more. Do you have an open mind? And if you don't like to read, they all appear in an astounding number of youtube videos. You are in favor of free education. Watching these guys on youtube will give you a virtually free education...gotta pay for internet access and a PC I suppose. And some electricity...so I guess there's no totally free education. But this is a University of Chicago, Stanford, UCLA, Cornell, Harvard, George Mason level education. Kinda hard to turn one's back on a free education of that quality for someone that's pro-free education.

[sailorboy1]

How do how do people moving to Florida help Florida?

I “moved” to Fl via CA-NY-CT-NH. Now I am a FL resident living on my boat mainly, but have the last few years in FL:

- brought a house
- brought a car
- registered my boats and car
- spent my money here paying sales tax on all of it
- helped businesses stay in business by spending my money
- those businesses employ and pay people

Have natives in FL done anything different?

But I believe boaters should not come to FL.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by ScottyMR

So, I'm new on here. That's because I just contacted a buyers broker today to start shopping for my first sailboat. I did that because I want to join the ranks of the liveaboards in Florida. Part of the idea, of course, is the occasional coastal cruise. But I still work for a living until retirement ten years away. So the other part of the idea is significant state income tax savings by relocating to Florida. Looking at a few threads here makes me think Florida is trying to run off liveaboards. Is that right? Am I on a fool's mission trying to buy a boat thinking I can live on it in a Florida marina with an annual contract...even NE Florida?

Beyond that, it dawns on me I may have just described myself as a covid poster-boy that wants to do this. I'm sure I'm not alone. Is there enough marina and mooring space to go around for everyone with that dream? Or is there a significant supply and demand issue here?

Much ado about nothing...or legitimate concerns?

Okay, first things first. Ypou will have to pay a fee for the priviledge of living on your boat. Expect o drop at least $150.00 for that. Add the electric, usually minimum of $15 to $20 more plus what ever else you use.
I'll get some crap about this but DO NOT register the boat in Florida. Get it documented, You can't title a documented vessl in any state. So they don't know you have it.
It takes a lot of work to find a homeowner who has a slip available. Lauderdale has several but they're probably full. Look for a 'snow bird' who leaves in summer, might work out something there for long term.
Bridges are something else to consider. The Keys? Yeah they make you move often enough. Good luck with a slip.
If you do get a slip, be careful of the location. Nobody goes slow on the ICW. You will get rocked and sometimes very hard. If you do find a marina see that it has a haulout capability. It do get stormy and your insurance company will pay for it with a named storm. On that expect to be asked to vacate the marina. Some places are mandatory like the Cape. Others just ask, and you may be responsible for dock damage. [really]
I wish you the best of luck.

[Corvidae]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

Are you saying it would be ok to leave it in the water in that case? Doesn't bottom growth become an issue if the boat is left in the water and not moved?

Is the winter weather in Jacksonville much harsher than in St. Augustine or slightly further south? I'm not sure where I will be healthwise when I do this, but perhaps I am thinking wrong. Perhaps I should just store the boat during the off season on the ground, then ready the boat, have it dropped in, rent a transient dock for a few days to make sure the boat is set, and then head out

Most marina boats in Florida stay in the water all year. There's usually a diver or several divers that come out weekly to monthly to scrape the bottoms. Then depending on your bottom paint once a year to five, they haul out to sand and paint the bottom. Usually out of the water for less than a week.

The weather gradient in Florida is about the same until you get down to around Jupiter. South of there it gets hotter all year round. North of there it gets colder in the winter and not as hot in the summer. Personally it's enough of a difference to make Florida livable or not because of the heat. Obvious many people don't agree with me, the southern 3 counties of the state have 1/3rd of the states population, and growing. Which is also why the marina's down there are more expensive than the rest of the state.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Tonali99

I'll get some crap about this but DO NOT register the boat in Florida.

Get some crap? Well, considering that the law REQUIRES you to register your boat in Florida, if you are here for more than 90 days, you probably should. What you are telling people is that they should violate the law. If they take your advice, and get caught, are you going to help with the legal fees?

No, I didn't think so.

And whether or not you document your boat has absolutely nothing to do with it. Furthermore, as many here have mentioned on many occasions, throughout most of the state the local gendarmes as well as the FWC walk the docks now and then looking for boats that have not registered. So, you may get away with breaking the law for a while, but there's a good chance you will eventually get caught.

So, yeah, all in all, I think you well and truly deserve "some crap."

[Belezar]

I knew the article about living aboard was off as soon as I saw this: “Florida may have a reputation for being a weird state, but that’s all talk.”

As an aside, I love our Canadian neighbors, but I implore them to keep poutine to themselves. I mean to say, it’s too good to share, right?