Tips and tricks for minimalist cruising

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

whether one is frugal or wants to keep it minimal, it is all good.

but what interests me (as a still hopeful boat-owner and cruiser - this is taking forever!) is finding ways to decrease my boat's/my lifestyle's carbon footprint before some legislative body (that hasn't a clue) starts making up and imposing impossible rules.

wouldn't it would be great if our community came up with tricks and tips on our own?

please don't tell me to start a thread: although i seriously recycle, get most clothing from used-clothing stores, quit buying/cooking meat/fish/dairy for the planet (long ago), never needed a car (mass transport and a bike), cut my own hair, and am now getting rid of the fridge in my very small bolthole, etc., i don't have my boat yet and don't cruise yet.


so if folks out there have good ideas on greening the sailing lifestyle more, they could prove useful



wolfie

I think the main thing is to not buy anything. That’s what makes you the greenest. Every time you spend money, there’s a carbon footprint involved for the most part. Especially with a boat. The less things you buy, the less footprint you have.

So certainly a new boat is very bad for the environment. It broke my heart to build my boat. All of that petro chemical processing done to make the materials the boat is built out of. It was awful for the environment. And I still feel bad about it.

Then when it comes to everything else, get the most mileage you can out of it. Keep running those sails even though they are not the best, don’t buy new stuff. Use the old stuff until it doesn’t work anymore. And then fix it. And then use it again. Until it’s just impossible to continue with it.

Choose sailing over motoring. It’s more difficult, and not as convenient. But, in the end, it does seem to have less carbon footprint.

Pots and pans. Use what you already have. Don’t buy a whole new set for the boat. Same with dishes. Same with everything. Try to use what you already have.

By the way, I absolutely loved your last post. I could not agree more with everything in it.

[JPA Cate]

We learned to live without ice, about 99% of the time. Only use it now for medical reasons (applying to new sprains, allergic itchy reactions, etc.). Not purists, though, if someone else has ice, we cheerfully drink G&T's. But we learned to drink rum & lime at bilge temp. Kind of a neat trick close to the equator. We do have refrigeration. It just takes a lot of energy to turn water into ice, and we elected to not spend on generating more power just for frozen water. So no genset, no larger battery bank, smaller solar array, and a wind generator.

@skipmac: Jim and I have merino undershirts (for cold weather). Love 'em. NOT SCRATCHY like the wool swimsuits I had as a child. Soft and warm. Can machine wash, but not go through a dryer. Preferably dry in the shade, which means below decks, but dries fast.

We use manual pumps to conserve fresh water. We can capture rain water, when it comes.

@wolfgal: I think as long as you retain awareness of wanting to keep a small footprint, you will not have a problem with that. As to the electric engine, I am not at all sure the technology will support long passages. If you have wind or solar enough to recharge regularly, then yes, perhaps, but then you have to think of all the associated costs of that. It gets really complex.

Ann

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

but what interests me (as a still hopeful boat-owner and cruiser - this is taking forever!) is finding ways to decrease my boat's/my lifestyle's carbon footprint before some legislative body (that hasn't a clue) starts making up and imposing impossible rules.

Wolfie,

If you were serious about your carbon-footprint, any boat with an elder diesel-engine or generator not meeting the most stringent emission standards and gas for cooking will be a big no-no. And even if you manage to do this, the next big hurdle will be the total carbon footprint of all the doodahs you have on board once manufacturing and transport is factored in.

Oh, while we're at it, all the lines and sails are basically made from oil. Another time-bomb for your carbon-footprint.

You now can either alleviate your conscience by throwing your money at some shady carbon-footprint-offset organisation or you can be honest with yourself and stop worrying. The latter leads to a better life than the former.

I, if I'd try to consider my carbon footprint in a serious way, I wouldn't be able to afford to sail in this and the next 3 lives. On the other hand, I think my environmental impact now is lower than it was before I moved onto my boat.

[wolfgal]

Joh.G's statement:

"if I'd try to consider my carbon footprint in a serious way, I wouldn't be able to afford to sail in this and the next 3 lives. On the other hand, I think my environmental impact now is lower than it was before I moved onto my boat."

maybe it is only the liveaboard who can honestly say this...?

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Well, since you are sailing a Vindö 43 out of Malmõ, you've pretty well aced it, haven't you :-)?

The standard outfit of a Vindö 43 "off the rack" is surely more than you NEED? If you are wanting to be a "minimalist", then what you want, clearly, is to minimalize your WANTS!

In terms of minimalist navigation outta Malmö: Turn left coming out of there, follow the shore and you'll be in Ystad before you know. Carry on along the shore overnight, then turn right and you'll be in Färjestaden. But remember to keep yer tongue straight as you come in twixt Õland and "the mainland". It's only about 5 NM from one to the other. With a draft of a piddling 6 feet you don't even need a fish-finder. You can see bottom in 30 feet of water. And you do carry a good ol'fashioned sounding lead, don't you :-)

'Course, you could be wanting the fleshpots of Nyhavn. Then just steer about 310 out of Malmö so as to leave Saltholmen to port. You don't actually need a compass to do that. You remember from you boy-scout days how to use a "minimalist" analogue wristwatch as a compass, don't you? Even an old-fashioned alarm clock will do :-)

Be a bit careful as you come down the harbour and turn right into Nyhavn just before the Indre Havnebro. The fairway in Nyhavn is narrow. Narrow enuff that you can see shore without using binoculars. You can't get past Nyhavnsbroen, but from there it is a five minute walk to Hotel d'Angleterre, anyway. Hotel d'A used to be the best eatery in town. Though the music at the Vitex was better. I think that place is gone now. So is Café Shanghai in Nyhavn, I'm sure. That was the place to go if loose women were on your shopping list. So you see there is no need for refrigerators, or diesel generators or any of that sort of stuff if you sail Vindõ 43 out of Malmõ :-)!

Ha det så så trevligt :-)!

TrentePieds (FDP)

Nyhavn is lovely but a bit touristy for me.

As I made clear minimalism and asceticism are two different things. My Regina 43 is certainly not compatible with the latter, but it can be, and is more and more, compatible with the former.

Merino wool is not at all scratchy against the skin, and can be as cool as cotton in the heat if thin enough with the added benefit of it not smelling of BO after a single day.

[Na Mara]

I worked out how much CO2 I release from cooking with gas and its a tiny amount. It works out as 10kg CO2 per month or 120kg CO2 per year from cooking (and that is without using induction in port). I breath out 4-5 times that.

Assuming 15l of diesel usage a week on average ( 4-5 hrs of motoring a week) CO2 from running the engine is about 40kg a week or 2 metric tons a year.

It’s the engine that dominates the carbon footprint on a boat, not the lpg for cooking.

Still, with a crew of 4 aboard, the emissions per person are only half a ton per person per year for all heating, cooking, lighting and transport. That is way less than the emissions per person for those things on land.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

We learned to live without ice, about 99% of the time. Only use it now for medical reasons (applying to new sprains, allergic itchy reactions, etc.). Not purists, though, if someone else has ice, we cheerfully drink G&T's. But we learned to drink rum & lime at bilge temp. Kind of a neat trick close to the equator. We do have refrigeration. It just takes a lot of energy to turn water into ice, and we elected to not spend on generating more power just for frozen water. So no genset, no larger battery bank, smaller solar array, and a wind generator.

@skipmac: Jim and I have merino undershirts (for cold weather). Love 'em. NOT SCRATCHY like the wool swimsuits I had as a child. Soft and warm. Can machine wash, but not go through a dryer. Preferably dry in the shade, which means below decks, but dries fast.

We use manual pumps to conserve fresh water. We can capture rain water, when it comes.

@wolfgal: I think as long as you retain awareness of wanting to keep a small footprint, you will not have a problem with that. As to the electric engine, I am not at all sure the technology will support long passages. If you have wind or solar enough to recharge regularly, then yes, perhaps, but then you have to think of all the associated costs of that. It gets really complex.

Ann

yes, Ann, my hope is that those things that are essential can become less polluting and, geez, a bit less complex (wouldn't that be wonderful)! i looked at a small, i believe chuck paine, boat once that did have an electric engine, and well it also had the gas generator taking up a fair portion of the cockpit and loads of expensive-n-complicated tech bits to make things go. this was about five years ago, so perhaps things have come along since then, but it was so obvious to me how we are just not there yet.

in the meantime, i love hearing how folks like you enjoy drinks at bilge temp, how folks look for multi-purpose items, conserve and make things last, recycle... and in some cases, find they do well well without.

other tips, like the merino wool are appreciated too

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

My biggest trick:
Use what you have and don't lust after the so called Must-Haves.

So your boat doesn't have a chart-plotter at the helm? Go sailing without it, don't buy that new fancy networked wonder thingy.
.

This is the key to minimalism aboard. Before purchasing any new item for your boat, think really long and hard about whether you really need it and only buy it if you really, really do need it. Similarly with anything already aboard: only keep an item aboard if you use it regularly or if it is otherwise essential to safety or comfort.

To whit, regular clear outs of lockers are part of the philosophy. Old unused tools, paints, food, etc should be disposed of reasponsibly to free up space and access for stuff that actually contributes to cruising pleasure.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

To whit, regular clear outs of lockers are part of the philosophy. Old unused tools, paints, food, etc should be disposed of reasponsibly to free up space and access for stuff that actually contributes to cruising pleasure.

Various leaks, humidity and annoying liquid spills by failing containers provide the necessary incentive for this.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I think the main thing is to not buy anything. That’s what makes you the greenest. Every time you spend money, there’s a carbon footprint involved for the most part. Especially with a boat. The less things you buy, the less footprint you have.

So certainly a new boat is very bad for the environment. It broke my heart to build my boat. All of that petro chemical processing done to make the materials the boat is built out of. It was awful for the environment. And I still feel bad about it.

Then when it comes to everything else, get the most mileage you can out of it. Keep running those sails even though they are not the best, don’t buy new stuff. Use the old stuff until it doesn’t work anymore. And then fix it. And then use it again. Until it’s just impossible to continue with it.

Choose sailing over motoring. It’s more difficult, and not as convenient. But, in the end, it does seem to have less carbon footprint.

Pots and pans. Use what you already have. Don’t buy a whole new set for the boat. Same with dishes. Same with everything. Try to use what you already have.

By the way, I absolutely loved your last post. I could not agree more with everything in it.

Sorry this is just nonsense , you buy as you need , I agree this is not the same as profligate spending . I like to cook , so I have a very well equipped galley. High end pots pans etc. These were expensive.

Equally my boat is my hobby. So I indulge the boat with embellishments from time to time

Frugality is one thing , dogmatism is another

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I worked out how much CO2 I release from cooking with gas and its a tiny amount. It works out as 10kg CO2 per month or 120kg CO2 per year from cooking (and that is without using induction in port). I breath out 4-5 times that.

Seems the only correct thing to do in they eyes of the "How dare you!"-crowd is to stop cooking and breathing. As stopping to breathe will reduce your CO2 footprint more, that's what you're supposed to do. You may still be allowed to go on cooking once you stopped breathing.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by wolfgal

Joh.G's statement:

"if I'd try to consider my carbon footprint in a serious way, I wouldn't be able to afford to sail in this and the next 3 lives. On the other hand, I think my environmental impact now is lower than it was before I moved onto my boat."

maybe it is only the liveaboard who can honestly say this...?

I think that even the most over-the-top wasteful liveaboard has a smaller carbon footprint than someone living ashore and commuting. Buildings are bigger spaces to heat/AC, water and electricity are more profligately used, lawns are mowed, even city buses release a huge amount of carbon. Ever see a bus with only 2 people in it? I have, all the time.
To live aboard an older boat and keep it maintained is probably the lowest footprint after moving into a cave and riding an antique bicycle.
I agree with Joh.Gurt that to tie yourself up in knots trying to burn less propane because of carbon emissions is silly. Burn less because you appreciate efficiency; or hate to pay for it; but don't make your life miserable or your cooking less edible because you're worried about an extra pound of gas in the air.

[250224]

Benz said it well: "Don't make your life miserable". There are not only limits to growth but also to individual guilt! --

Regarding minimalist cruising. The most minimalist yacht I ever saw pictures of must be this Geist 111. No clutter, few colors, small number of different timber, no TV, aim to minimize the impact on the environment. While there is a generator ("We have generators as a back-up but I plan to enjoy her under power created from a day’s sailing"), this doesn't deviate from the minimal ethos for me.

https://rhoadesyoung.com/portfolio/spirit-yachts-111/
https://www.boatinternational.com/ya...ner-spirit-111

As for tips, it's difficult: get rich, but stay modest, know good designers. For mere mortals, clutter can be reduced in all boats .

PS: the MBA with M1 is very energy efficient

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry this is just nonsense , you buy as you need , I agree this is not the same as profligate spending . I like to cook , so I have a very well equipped galley. High end pots pans etc. These were expensive.

Equally my boat is my hobby. So I indulge the boat with embellishments from time to time

Frugality is one thing , dogmatism is another

Indulgence IS increasing your carbon footprint.

Every single new thing you buy is produced in a way that creates emissions. Every last thing.

You are burying your head in the sand.

A lot of people talk a good game about being environmentally conscious. Those celebrities in their jets preaching about the environment, for example. You are no different from them if you don’t scale back the resources you consume.

Fact of the matter is, every single thing you buy creates carbon or pollution, so the less things you buy new (and the more you can get something used), the better you are doing for the environment. This is a WELL known fact. You don’t want as not to admit it, because you might be inconvenienced or feel discomfort by backing off your consumerism.

Here’s where it gets interesting.

Buying very good pans is NOT an example of a bad purchase for the environment. Buying NEW pans is. So the best pans for the environment are the pans you already have. Why? Earning money comes with a carbon footprint. Second best are extremely high quality used pans that last a lifetime, such as an old cast iron pan, or out of style pans of the same brand you have right now.
Third best are the pans you bought. Yes, they are new. Yes, you had carbon emissions from making the money to buy them, they were mined, manufactured, transported by truck, sat in a store with HVAC and lights, in a building that was constructed to house them, etc... but... if you can control yourself and keep them for the rest of your life, they aren’t the worst pans you could buy.
The worst pans you could buy are the new ones from a very cheap store that degrade so quickly, you replace them every year or two.

I love cooking too. It’s very important to me. I have a mixture of new high end and hand me down pots and pans. They don’t match. The food doesn’t know if they match. 2 I bought new, the rest are hand me downs from parents (purchased 50 years ago) and from a boat I bought where they left some nice pots and pans aboard. My cooking equipment carbon footprint is quite minimal and my cookware is the same quality as yours.

You didn’t realize it, but you introduced a perfect illustration as to how to use the principles I introduced above to actually make a difference in carbon emissions and the environment in general.

These principles, when applied across your entire life, including to boating, result in greatly reduced carbon emissions.

Nonsense? Think again.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Benz

I think that even the most over-the-top wasteful liveaboard has a smaller carbon footprint than someone living ashore and commuting. Buildings are bigger spaces to heat/AC, water and electricity are more profligately used, lawns are mowed, even city buses release a huge amount of carbon. Ever see a bus with only 2 people in it? I have, all the time.
To live aboard an older boat and keep it maintained is probably the lowest footprint after moving into a cave and riding an antique bicycle.
I agree with Joh.Gurt that to tie yourself up in knots trying to burn less propane because of carbon emissions is silly. Burn less because you appreciate efficiency; or hate to pay for it; but don't make your life miserable or your cooking less edible because you're worried about an extra pound of gas in the air.

And other than cooking through solar, propane is the most clean cooking fuel there is on a boat. The rest are much worse.