Want to be a liveaboard

[tkalfaoglu]

Hi there. Me and missus we would love to have a boat that can travel the med, and beyond. We have a big house, two cars, and about 10K in savings.

So the dilemma is to whether buy something very small that can fit in our budget, or, sell the house (of which we don't use 70% of) and the cars, and then buy something decent around 45 feet and then maybe buy a small house with the rest, keeping the rest for boat/house expenses. I guesstimate that 40% will remain after the purchase of the boat and the small house.

My wife says that she will only live on board full-time if the home facilities are provided. I think she means a decent galley, a head, a water maker, and a washing machine.. I intend to avoid Turkish marinas like the plague due to their high price.
It's such a big leap that it scares me. I'm currently working, but eligible for retirement which will cut my income in half.

Any tips on how to proceed?
Thanks! -t

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by tkalfaoglu

Hi there. Me and missus we would love to have a boat that can travel the med, and beyond. We have a big house, two cars, and about 10K in savings.


Any tips on how to proceed?
Thanks! -t

You don't say where you life or what currency you are working with.

Well 10k is not going to go far. If your wife is looking for home luxuries it is certainly possible but not for 10,20,30k so your going to have to sell the house.

So some questions for you?

I assume you want a sail boat correct? A power boat is a nicer live aboard if your going to be a marina live aboard but completely impractical for costs due to fuel costs and impractical for moving around in storms. Sailboats go anywhere for practically nothing once you have bought sails.

Have you or the Ms ever sailed? If not you need to start there. Get out on a sail boat. See if you and she like it or if it scares the daylights out of you or her.

Maybe try some rough water and see what you and the Ms think because if your sailing your going to be in rough water sooner or later. If one or both of you gets serious sea sick think about living with that for 3 days.

Then you need to learn to sail. It is not hard but it is a special skillset and requires practice. Nice to be mechanically inclined so you can fix your own stuff because if you can't you are doomed.

Then you need to look at all kinds of boats and ask others about them and get a ride on them before you decide buy. Every boat is different.

I have had a C&C 34, a C&C 38 & currently own a Beneteau idylle 51.

The 34 is a nice but your one step up from camping and this is not an ocean going boat. We are talking costal cruiser.

The 38 is a nice boat but again a coastal cruiser and your camping in style. I know of at least one that went across the ocean but it was not as much fun as they had hoped. In fact it took a year for any of them to talk to one and other again.

The 51 is a full on blue water cruiser that could go anywhere I might decide to go as long as there is 6.5 ft of water.

There are 30 ft boats cruising the world. I would think conditions are cramped and sparse.

There are lots of 45 fts running around the cruising in style but the cost to buy is up there, when you buy it you will likely put 50k into it right away.

Just my random thoughts and it is way more complicated than that.

Pro tip from a guy who has spent lots refitting on boats. Do not buy a project boat and think you will fix it up cheap. There is no such thing as cheap in the boating world. Buy the best boat you can for the the money available. Everything is supper expensive and a suite of sails for a 45ftr is going to run you 25/30k so it would be nice if the boat had a good set.


Oh and stay away from the full keelers. They mostly dreadfully slow

[Sailorman97]

Here is a beginner book. I have never read it but its $14.

https://improvesailing.com/fast-track-away

[tkalfaoglu]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

You don't say where you life or what currency you are working with.

Thank you VERY much for the infornation! Indeed I left out a lot.. Yes, I meant Euros as currency in my message. And sailing is what we love most..

In my youth, I had a Sunfish for about 10 years and I did lots of sailing - and I took sailing lessons then.. So I'm pretty good about sails, wind, the basics. We both have gotten our Turkish boating certificates a few years back, and we are now legally able to operate yachts up to 18 meters. I also have a VHF license.

Last year we were able to go on an hour-long trip on a Bavaria C45 and we loved it. It was captained and we were simply going along, but still it was wonderful.

Regards, -t

[boatman61]

Put the house and the most valuable car up for sale then, using the cheaper car go in search of the smaller cheaper house in a location you both like..
Once the sale of the old and purchase of the new home are completed reassess your finances and decide on how much you want to spend on the boat, how much for mods/upgrades and your float kitty while retaining a useful sum in something that keeps you inflation proof.
Achieve all those things and then enjoy yourselves..

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by tkalfaoglu

Thank you VERY much for the infornation! Indeed I left out a lot.. Yes, I meant Euros as currency in my message. And sailing is what we love most..


In my youth, I had a Sunfish for about 10 years and I did lots of sailing - and I took sailing lessons then.. So I'm pretty good about sails, wind, the basics. We both have gotten our Turkish boating certificates a few years back, and we are now legally able to operate yachts up to 18 meters. I also have a VHF license.

Last year we were able to go on an hour-long trip on a Bavaria C45 and we loved it. It was captained and we were simply going along, but still it was wonderful.

Regards, -t

Well then you know something and that is a very good start. Now you need to look at boats and see what you like and what you can live with.

Things to consider.

How much do you have to spend on the boat total including refit costs?

How much will your income be?

How much to store this boat and where will be stored. Is storage actually easily available.

Insurance costs.

Maintenance? Some say you need to spend 10% if the value of the boat on maintenance. I don't really by that but you have to have some money set aside for major issues. If you blow your motor can you afford to repair it or is the boat now scrap? Take a 200k boat. Blow the motor. Like a new one is 20k. Installation will be another 8k unless you can do it yourself. If you can not do that then you have a 120k boat because the new buyer is going to want a really good deal.

Food, water, were you going to obtain this?

Sailor Boy has put out some spread sheets with is actual costs over several years. Others I know who sail large 45-50 foot boats and they are spending 2800 to 3500 a month sail the Caribbean. This includes airfare and summer storage.


It can be done cheaper. I hear of people doing it on $600 a month but there are no niceties. It is survival level in a warm place and not much more than that. Your not flying home or going out to dinner or lunch.

Now these are my impressions and what I have heard from others so I could be way way off. I hear Turkey is very inexpensive to live in but expensive to keep a boat there. I hear this from my Turkish surveyor buddy.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by tkalfaoglu

Hi there. Me and missus we would love to have a boat that can travel the med, and beyond. We have a big house, two cars, and about 10K in savings.

So the dilemma is to whether buy something very small that can fit in our budget, or, sell the house (of which we don't use 70% of) and the cars, and then buy something decent around 45 feet and then maybe buy a small house with the rest, keeping the rest for boat/house expenses. I guesstimate that 40% will remain after the purchase of the boat and the small house.

My wife says that she will only live on board full-time if the home facilities are provided. I think she means a decent galley, a head, a water maker, and a washing machine.. I intend to avoid Turkish marinas like the plague due to their high price.
It's such a big leap that it scares me. I'm currently working, but eligible for retirement which will cut my income in half.

Any tips on how to proceed?
Thanks! -t

Hello tkalfaoglu,

If I've got this right you and your wife have not been sailors before, or liveaboard boaters but you have been inspired to live on a boat and your wife has tentatively agreed subject to conditions.

And you yourself acknowledge that it is a big leap.

Yes, it would be a big leap and you might not like it (many people do not and don't last long living on a boat). You want to avoid making a mistake from which you cannot easily unwind yourself. I'd recommend that you do not sell the house and cars and jump. It's too final.

My wife once said to me, "Why would anyone live on a sailboat unless they liked to sail and did it often?" It's really true; there are a lot of inconveniences, big ones. Your wife has already made it clear she wants it to be as convenient as home. Likely it won't be.

So before you proceed just dip your toes in. Learn to sail and do a lot of it (with her). Do a week long charter or two (without a captain) and try to meet some other liveaboards and see how they do it. Consider it a new sport. Maybe buy a small boat (30ft) and learn to fix things. After a year of frequent sailing trips and learning about boat maintenance you might start to get the feel for it.

But you must get your wife to buy into it.

That's my view.

[idpnd]

Perhaps you should do some trial liveaboard stuff on rented boats in your post-home budget. And by the way with current inflation rates I'd calculate what you can get and then buy something right away instead of using your account balance once you've established the facts since it'll start evaporating as soon as it's on your a/c...

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Jim and I are liveaboard cruisers (except for this house-sit which will be over in about 6 weeks), and have been, for about 36 yrs.

I can understand wanting all the modern conveniences of house living, but the fact is that many cannot afford boats big enough to offer all of them. I've been making beds on my knees this whole time, because we didn't want to have a center cockpit boat with a large aft cabin where you spend only 1/3 your time every day, with all that waste space--we'd rather have storage space. We have always used laundries ashore (where we've been, often marinas have them), or streams like the native inhabitants, never had laundry facilities on the boat, except buckets, of course. Our present boat has an on-demand hot water heater in the shower/head, but I head water on the stove for beverages and dish washing. It has not been a strain, it is "normal" for the situation, and it conserves water, which is always an issue on boats. Lately, I'm old and my knees are bad, and Jim has taken over making the bed for me when we wash the bed linens.

Most of our "deprivations" (I don't think of it that way, I think they are compromises) have been driven by wanting the boat to sail well. Unfortunately, most of the comforts people tend to add to boats diminish the sailing performance by making the boat heavier, to say nothing of the difficulty of establishing a boat so it can do laundry. It involves "boat yoga", and you give up space for something else you want to accommodate for the pipes and the wash machine; then providing the water and power. We used a plunger and buckets for years, and it is possible to get everything clean, cleaner than machines. The hardest thing I ever had to wring out was a sleeping bag, but I was able to do it. Where there's a will, there's a way.

What you both really need (and I don't know how you rate on this quality), is flexibility and good negotiating skills.

Ann

[accomplice]

I suggest you think as much about on-going expense as initial cost.

Add up the capital investment in new house and new boat. Consider the operating expense for new house and new boat. Then consider the rate of return on your remaining capital required to support that expense. Adjust the new house and boat upfront and expenses until it works.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by tkalfaoglu

My wife says that she will only live on board full-time if the home facilities are provided. I think she means a decent galley, a head, a water maker, and a washing machine.. I intend to avoid Turkish marinas like the plague due to their high price.
It's such a big leap that it scares me. I'm currently working, but eligible for retirement which will cut my income in half.

Any tips on how to proceed?
Thanks! -t

And that's fair enough but it ain't going to be small
And if you buy the right boat you won't need to visit marinas - we haven't used one in 6 years so money saved there.
And big boats with all your wife's wants need not necessarily be expensive
Unless they have sails, then they do become expensive.
And they can be a handfull for a two up team.

In all our years on the water it is pretty rare to see larger sailing boats actually sailing, even on nice days.
Engines get used more often than many care to admit.
So why pay for all those sails, deck hardware and rig plus with insurance now, it seems regular rig survey and rigging replacement on a rig that is rarely used.
And on big boats, that's going to cost plenty.


We gave up on trying to get what you want in sail
And we didn't want to sell the house to buy a boat

We found a cosmetically challenged unicorn that's getting slowly prettied up while we cruise her full time.
Space is vaste, load carrying ability is immense, all the comfort of a dirt house without the neighbours

Rent of house more than covers cost of running her including mostly paid for maintenance.
And like you, early retirement on half pay for living on.

I should add that we have been sailing for 40 years and wanted sail for our full time cruising liveaboard
But, a comfortable cruising liveaboard was more important than sails.

[JPA Cate]

Simi does make a good point, if you care about sails, sailing, and sail shape, you'll be paying roughly 14k for a headsail and mainsail, and of course, can pay more...and that could buy fuel. The distance from the Sts. of Gibraltar to the Bosporus is a little over 2,100 n. mi; whereas, the Qld Coast, where Siimi 60 usually hangs out, is roughly 1,200 n. mi. You can work out the fuel calculations.

Accomplice's point relative to ongoing costs above and beyond slip fees and insurance is also realistically taken. Boats really are holes in the water into which one pours money. Something usually minor, breaks on long trips. Usually minor, because the boat was carefully prepared first. Stuff wears out. Not much of it is "forever" stuff. Older naturally aspirated engines are less finicky than newer more complex ones. Plus there is the ethical issue about using fossil fuels.

If you were to start in the 27-30 foot, 15 yr old range, and then experiment for a year or two, you'd get a very good idea about all that is involved, including labor and costs and sailing in nice weather. Doing this will help you clarify your joint ideas about what you want in a boat if you should want to continue. I came from backpacking to sailing, and so the water conservation and heating wash water on the stove didn't bother me, but luxurious expectations on a beer income can be a problem. (We also lived aboard for 18 years on our previous boat and never showered below decks--we made privacy curtains, and used a sun shower in the cockpit. This practice meant that we never had to deal with shower sludge in the bilge. Present boat has a separate shower sump. You may not find that in the above size range, and can be complex to retrofit.)

Again, good luck with it.

Ann

[TomCio]

In July last year, when we became empty nesters, we sold our a way too big house before we got employed with full time babysitting of our 3rd generation, we sold my big car, too, and started searching for a reasonable live aboard boat from my wife's convertible and our computers. 4 months and 17 500 km later, after driving from Poland to Gibraltar, along Portugal and the whole N coast of the Med and a 1.5 months stay in The Canaries (it was by ferry, so it is not included in the log), in Croatia, we bought a Beneteau Oceanis Clipper 473 that met (and still meets) 99% of our requirements for a floating home, moved all necessary and unnecessary stuff aboard in December, prepared it for sailing and finally set off on May 14th.

Our situation is a bit different from yours, we still run a business from the distance, which proved feasible during our two long winter stays abroad during Covid_1984, so every day we spend a couple of hours woring aboard or sometimes in cafes.

Anyway, we couldn't be happier sailing in Greece, now around Rhodes.

You might consider buying a second hand over 15 years old armateur version of a small sailing boat <12m that you can get for ca. €70k to cut marina costs or a bigger one, like we did, for ca. €140k, with a few extra cabins, aboard which you can have paid guests from time to time provided you register for cabin charter.

Regardless what you choose, remember to become energy and water supply independent from the very start, this investment will help you cut operation costs in the future and will give you more freedom - eg we bought an electric engine to our dinghy that we charge from an inverter while motoring and it was the best investment. When electric yacht engines become a standard and our Yanmar wears out, we will surely switch to electric engine.

All the best, fulfil your dreams, and see you around in The Med or The Egean soon!

[jerryf609]

It's a romantic dream at this time. How do you move from fantasy to reality? I doubt this will end well. You think she means... ask her exactly what she means. She doesnt seem to want it. Must be like home. Must have a home to retreat to. You have sailed sunfish.

Somehow you need to get on a boat and live on it for 2 months before you sell your house which is apparently your means of financing the endeavor.

You risk living the next 30 years under I told you so.