Would You Do It ?

[ohdrinkboy]

My first post here....hi guys!

Consider getting pre-approved for the boat loan as well. Some lenders want 50% down, others have tough age of collateral requirements.

Don't look for the perfect boat. Look for one that will meet your needs. Consider taking the 50% offer approach. There are so many good boats on the market now. Make lots of low ball offers and you'll find someone who bites on it. Highly likely on the former charter market.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Caribbean Bound

Here's the parameters of the vessel I'm looking for. Location, St. Thomas. Large enough for my wife and I to liveaboard (40'+), Easy enough to sale short handed (two relatively inexperienced people, cruising not racing). Well equipped enough to sale between USVI, BVI, and Puerto Rico, and should not require any repairs other than routine maintenance for three years.

So, would you do it? Do you you think it can be done without taking a loss? Do you think you could turn a profit? How much of a boat/what boat would you buy???

I echo the comments made previously - sell a boat without making a loss, ROTFLMAO .

But with $30k to play with before the loss hits your pocket, then I think a good chance of being doable - if you buy well (on model, condition and on price) and don't bugger up the boat in the meantime.

I would be thinking something that has just come out of charter (with a mainstream company) in your desired area, with a decent surveyor stands a good chance of getting what you are paying for, boat will have been worked hard but also should have been maintained (not all private owners do that ).

Downside is that won't have all the bells and whistles that you may like (even if not need) and layout may not be ideal for just 2 persons (loads more bunks than needed) - but nothing that can't be lived with, if you want to. Anything you add to the boat will only aid saleability, not add value - so think carefully before going crazy on the Goodies. or go E-bay etc (stuff on a s/h boat is all s/h anyway).

Upside is that the boat will "work" in your desired area, bulk of depreciation will have been paid for by someone else and the model will still be fairly new (when you sell) and also "mainstream" - which should mean it is saleable (if you take some care of it), price acheived is a seperate matter. On that note you may want to factor in a change of location for a sale so you have a wider market / cheaper mooring or storage whilst she sells.

Dunno if your housing allowance covers mooring / marina fees - would be worth checking out / factoring in when doing your calculations. Personally I would think it wise to proceed on the basis that all running and maintainence costs during the 3 years comes out of your own kitty / earnings simply as a cost of entertainment / living - much like a car or playing golf etc.......and if you get back some (or all?!) of that, then consider it a bonus.

But if you need to not make any loss then I would forget about boats!

Oh, and don't blame me if it turns out I was wrong .

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Mimsy

No one should ever plan on making a profit on a boat. It does happen, but people surviving sky diving without a parachute happens too and that is more likely.

Not really true, if you do your homework, there is GREAT money in flipping boats..
doing it all the time.. Just sold a 36 foot silverton and made 20k.. picked up a 28 foot bayliner last month for 12 hundred with motor problems, replaced the exaust elbos and repairing some of the inside and already have a deposit on the boat for 10k.
There are a mass amount of boats in some sort of dis-array around that can be had for a song.

[s/v Breakaway]

Despite the experience of Randyonr3, I would plan on it taking up to a year to sell your boat, as well. Of course, if your next detail is on the coast, you may choose to move the boat and continue to use it as housing.

[Caribbean Bound]

Great advice guys, thank you! It sounds like I should definitely start watching the charter fleet and Bene's. I love the idea of a 50' Bene as I think the layout of most of the 40' range tend to look cramped for a liveaboard. However, at 50' am I starting to narrow down my field of potential buyers on the other side? Do you think the majority of people looking for boats in the mid 40' range would walk away from a 50' because they're intimadated by size? Marina and insurance fees are covered, and like David_old_jersey recommended I plan on swallowing the maintenance and care cost out of my own pocket and chalking it up to the joy of the experience. I also don't mind taking a little loss, but I don't want to walk away loosing much more than 5k. And since I'm no boat flipper (hopefully in any context!) I'm certainly not planning an experience like RandyonR3. Breakaway, a year is good tip, I was thinking about six months. Ideally, I could extend for another year and stay or get reassigned close by and continue the lifestyle. Usually there's a 6-8 month period in which we find out where we'd be going next and the time we'd actually leave, this is when I was planning to put the boat back on market.

[Cheechako]

If you are confident that your assignment will last the 3 years... why not. Forget the "no maintenance for 3 years" part though! Be prepared though that selling a boat can take 1-2 years ... even in a good economy... are you able to wait that long if you are reassigned?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

Not really true, if you do your homework, there is GREAT money in flipping boats..
doing it all the time.. Just sold a 36 foot silverton and made 20k.. picked up a 28 foot bayliner last month for 12 hundred with motor problems, replaced the exaust elbos and repairing some of the inside and already have a deposit on the boat for 10k.
There are a mass amount of boats in some sort of dis-array around that can be had for a song.

I think fixing/rolling over sick boats for a profit is an entirely different thing than the OP was asking..... I lost money on all my boats except one... that one was a major project.....

[Mimsy]

Also, Randy has a lot of experience with boats which makes it more likely to turn a profit than someone buying their first boat- no education is free! For those 3 examples I can name 3,000 other boats that lost money.

You also need to consider where you will get your loan. Some lenders are persnickety about where you take THEIR boat because until its paid for, its theirs.

Personally, if I were looking for a live aboard boat for a couple and I didn't have unlimited funds I would try to stick to something in the 35-40 ft range max. Mooring fees go up by the foot, as do all your operational costs. Reselling a boat in the 35-40ft range will be easier than a 50 footer for the reasons I just stated. If 35 feet seems too small to live aboard, perhaps living aboard isn't for you. Its a boat, not a condo.

[zeehag]

flipping boats??? isnt lucrative on this coast anymore...

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Caribbean Bound

What boats hold their value best ...........

well maintained and in good condition 20 year old boats hold their value best from what you pay for their compared to reselling later, but they are also harder to sell which a great part of the reason

Beyound that on a "newer" boat if keeping 3 years figure on losing $20-30k when reslling it after paying commission. On my last boata cal-39 that I sailed for 2 years I lost $12k and that is with trading it in and not paying any sales commission.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by zeehag

flipping boats??? isnt lucrative on this coast anymore...

I hope everyone feels like you as it means less competition for myself.......

If I were in the place as the OP and only wanted a boat for a liveaboard with a sail now and then, I be looking for power boats in a trawler version and a small sailboat, say 22 feet to play with on the side..
A mid 40 foot version of a CHB or something of that type will have twice the room of a sailboat and can be had for a fraction of the cost.. A 42 foot trawler selling for 160 a few years ago would be lucky to go for 60 to 80 on todays market..
and a nice 22 foot sailboat would cure the bug to sail now and then and can be picked up cheap

[Caribbean Bound]

One thing I'm positive about - I'm a blowboater. I've been on extended see deployments on 110' patrol boats, and although I thoroughly enjoyed the sea time the constant diesel exhaust, and engine rumble pulls me out of "the moment". I've considered purchasing a smaller boat for just daily sales, which may be where all this ends, but I'd really like to give the liveaboard lifestyle a go with my wife to see how it works out as it is a retirement dream for me. Also, we'd like to take an extended trip at the end of our time there. Originaly we were thinking big as we thought we might be able to pay the boat off, now we're thinking something in the 50 day range, circumnavigating PR or.....

[maytrix]

Maybe you should look at renting a boat long term as well? I actually recall a post recently where someone was looking to rent their's long term (2 years maybe?)..

[Caribbean Bound]

Originally Posted by maytrix

Maybe you should look at renting a boat long term as well? I actually recall a post recently where someone was looking to rent their's long term (2 years maybe?)..

If renting or leasing long term on a boat is a realistic option that someone knows more about I would LOVE to hear more! This could be the ideal scenario for us!

Just found this! : http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ise-77832.html

[RDW]

You really need to put the numbers to it. I think most of the people who have replied have not really put the pencil to someone else making the mortgage payments for 2 1/2 years. Yearly upkeep varies over a wide range and you can keep it on the low side by doing a lot of your own and getting good deals by being a live aboard. My thought is that you need to be getting as big a pile of money together as you can so you can buy the best boat you can afford. I think a good finiance person would say to try to get as close to the $2400/month as you could. And or course this can be done by having a shorter term mortgage which would be better than a higher mortgage. I see no benefit in not having as high a payment as you can up to the $2400.
The biggest problem I see is what do you do if you or your wife says "this is for the birds after 3 months?"
Good luck
Put a pencil to it, ask for the shortest term payments, do your homework and go for it if you cn make it look reasonable to at least break even.
RDW