Young People Cruising

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by cyan

This thread evolved into a really interesting discussion IMO. Mike's post here was the one that stood out for me. When the OP expressed the need to avoid the older nay-sayers, he exposed an age-gap issue that comes into play in other arenas: There seems to be a modern trend away from old-fashioned polite debate. The idea that you can learn something from people who disagree with you is fading away in many circles.
I suspect this has to do with recent (last 20 years) technology that enables strong voices without personal contact and with younger folks who have only known a world with such electronic connections.

To seek a group of like-minded people in one's own age group seems fair enough. To avoid another group because the experience-heavy words are sometimes discouraging... well that seems a bit flimsy indeed.
Go on, debate.
Disagree.
Be inspired to do it your way, a new way... BUT do it with the knowledge of those who did it the old way.

Nicely put. This is what I was trying to get at. The OP’s assumption that young cruisers are somehow unique to older cruisers is clearly false. Of course age matters, and there are some differing interests or experiences. But the overlap between sailors and or cruisers is far greater than the differences. And to seek to ignore everyone who doesn’t like your style of music, is both foolish and rather pitiful.

But I do wonder if it is part of the technology/modernity trend promoted by so-called ‘social media’ (which is not really very social). Humans have a deep tribal nature, and this technology further promotes and enhances our ability to stay within our safe little demographic silos.

We see this effect in spades with what is happening in politics, but I suspect this desire of the OP’s to have a special group only open to “young” cruisers, is also a shade of this effect.

It’s not a good trend.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by timlabute

Wow, some very serious thoughts in here. As the OP let me clarify.



1. Facebook is not "dead" just because 'you' decided not to use it anymore because it is "worse than the NSA for spying on you". It's very much a valid community, dare I say more so than internet forums.



2. "Old" isn't a number in my original post. It's a state of mind. Reading the nine pages of discussion in this thread, it's very clear who those "Old" people are, and who the open minded salty sea dogs are. We are in our 30's and get along extremely well with the salty sea dogs that nurture the sailing world with their great knowledge and advice.



I hope that helps clarify. We "young" (term used loosely) cruisers do have some different problems. We also have different interests. While we completely respect, admire, and love learning from the more experienced crowd, many of us are tired of being talked down to or told we can't do something. Again, not by all of the more experienced, just the subset.



We (lady k sailing) love this forum and love all of you cruisers who have made this journey possible for us with your wealth of knowledge, advice, and leadership. We also would love somewhere to share discussions not polluted by the asshats.

FWIW I know plenty of millennials that have 86’ed their FB accounts, including my two daughters, in their 20’s. They grew up with the net, having a dad in the industry.

There are probably better platforms in terms of organizing and surfacing content, but none better for attracting your target audience, so I don’t really disagree with your choice.

As you’ve noted the effectiveness of advice is often inseparable from the tone with which it’s delivered, but that does not change the quality of the advice.

A lot of younger cruisers do stupid things, often against the advice they are given, which they have dismissed as being hidebound, condescending, etc. This forum is loaded with threads documenting endless examples. It has some value as a resource to younger cruisers as a result.

I wish you well and hope your community does not turn into an echo chamber of inexperience.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Nicely put. This is what I was trying to get at. The OP’s assumption that young cruisers are somehow unique to older cruisers is clearly false. Of course age matters, and there are some differing interests or experiences. But the overlap between sailors and or cruisers is far greater than the differences. And to seek to ignore everyone who doesn’t like your style of music, is both foolish and rather pitiful.

But I do wonder if it is part of the technology/modernity trend promoted by so-called ‘social media’ (which is not really very social). Humans have a deep tribal nature, and this technology further promotes and enhances our ability to stay within our safe little demographic silos.

We see this effect in spades with what is happening in politics, but I suspect this desire of the OP’s to have a special group only open to “young” cruisers, is also a shade of this effect.

It’s not a good trend.

Mike,

What kind of hat are you wearing?

Don’t worry about not being let in through the magic FB looking glass, the kids will be back for more advice after they screw something up big time. But don’t hold your breath waiting for an apology.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

What kind of hat are you wearing?

Depends on the day … I swing both ways .

(or 31 ways … oh wait, that's the other thread )

[Kenomac]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pQTHn2tdrWU

[Delancey]

There used to be A LOT of really interesting and outspoken people here on CF. It wasn’t the total snooze fest it has become. “Get off my lawn” type people will be dead soon. They will be forgotten.

CF has definitely reached the “assisted living” stage of it’s existence.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Oh my.....

That was from my modelling portfolio. How’d you get it? .

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

That was from my modelling portfolio. How’d you get it? .

Facebook

[cjwilding]

The group Young People Cruising has nothing to do with Young People Cruising.

I spotted this post a few days ago and joined the Young People Cruising group.

Just over one year ago I became a full time livaboard and crossed the Atlantic. I am a younger cruiser and I have joined many cruiser communities and facebook groups on sailing. I started with almost zero knowledge, and as cruising sailors mostly are looking to pay forward all the help they have received along the way I decided to join this group.

I saw a post about a fellow young cruiser planing to convert a 30+ ft monohull to an electric motor, and replied to the post with a comment about reading Nigel Calder's book - specifically the chapter on batteries and charge acceptance rates, and to consider the efficiency of diesel power vs power stored in batteries.

I was removed from the group after only one day, without warning, no rules were provided, so I can only assume that if you disagree with the mods opinion you are removed from the group.

One poster in this thread put it very well, that they hoped the OP did not find themselves in an echo chamber of their own inexperience. Sadly I think that remark was insightful and accurate.

Perhaps the mods of this forum should create a genuine Young People Cruising board.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by cjwilding

The group Young People Cruising has nothing to do with Young People Cruising.

I spotted this post a few days ago and joined the Young People Cruising group.

Just over one year ago I became a full time livaboard and crossed the Atlantic. I am a younger cruiser and I have joined many cruiser communities and facebook groups on sailing. I started with almost zero knowledge, and as cruising sailors mostly are looking to pay forward all the help they have received along the way I decided to join this group.

I saw a post about a fellow young cruiser planing to convert a 30+ ft monohull to an electric motor, and replied to the post with a comment about reading Nigel Calder's book - specifically the chapter on batteries and charge acceptance rates, and to consider the efficiency of diesel power vs power stored in batteries.

I was removed from the group after only one day, without warning, no rules were provided, so I can only assume that if you disagree with the mods opinion you are removed from the group.

One poster in this thread put it very well, that they hoped the OP did not find themselves in an echo chamber of their own inexperience. Sadly I think that remark was insightful and accurate.

Perhaps the mods of this forum should create a genuine Young People Cruising board.

I’m actually surprised the CF mods allowed the OP to post an outside link going to a private members only site.

[svsonora]

I'm on facebook because I need to be nowadays. Events, event promotion, even a big portion of my clientele comes from facebook communications. Definitely not dead.

[john61ct]

AOL used to be "the place to be" too.

Yahoo! also at one time.

Me I go back to 1200 baud dial-up BBSs, then CompuServe was the hotness.

Better to just use The Internet, not get locked into any one corporate attempt to build a "walled garden".

[luckytroll]

My advice for young people cruising -

Are you under 20? Go. Just go. Watch "Hold Fast" - you now have a low bar to aim above. Get out on other peoples boats until you find one for a song. The experience from sailing is probably more an asset at this point than an opportunity cost.

What to avoid? Here's my obvious lessons learned (aka stuff I wish I had known at 26)

1. Stay single and guard your dreams. More partners have caused anchor-swallowing than have lack of resources. Choose a partner who embraces a minimalist lifestyle if you have to have one. You are more likely to find a sailing compatible mate out there than in your home town. So go single.
2. Use protection. Unless you are committed to a hippy lifestyle, and you are CERTAIN that your partner is programmed for this as well, kids will introduce a lot of scripts, infrastructure expectations, and 10foot-itis on your boat sizes. You can cruise happily with babies, kids, teens - but not if you are sub-millionaire and subscribing to the edicts of our culture that say you need a load of stuff and a village of services to raise a child. Again, your partners views are key to this.
3. Materialism is the enemy. Unless you are a 1%er, the stuff you own starts to own you too. Cruising will teach you that when you return to a storage container of stuff you realize you don't miss too much. Being young hopefully means you still don't have all that crap. Don't start now. The boats material needs will be more than enough on your resources.
4. You will need money, but don't delay until you have "enough" - you never will. If still not convinced see 7.
5. Fixer uppers cost time and money, and you may not do much sailing. If you want to become confident with your boat (and you should) being able to work all systems is key. Be careful with project boats - I spent 7 years and a lot of "tuition" restoring a beautiful boat, but only 1 season sailing her. Given a do-over I could have gotten a better deal and obtained the same amount of experience. In fact, I did just that with the next boat.
6. Get out on other peoples boats and figure out what kind of sailor you are before you sink money into your own hull. The reality of blue-water is a thing best experienced and digested. Every boat ad seems to pander to the dream, but there's nothing wrong with discovering you prefer to island hop and avoid the deep blue. Knowing that early can save a lot of time and dough, and get you into a boat appropriate to keep you in your happy place.
7. If you are getting into the 30s and have financial stability or sustainability in mind - have a look at "Mr Money Moustache" to get there. Its the conservative route, but if you are starting to use words like "opportunity cost" when thinking of cruising and career plans, there is hope with minimalism and thrift in the mix.
8. Dont do it for the likes. Non social media folks probably know this already, but do it for yourself. The oceans school us pretty fast to be humble and force us to look inwards upon our reasons for being out there. Make sure the ocean calls you, and not what you think the ocean will say based on books, and youtube videos. Those guys are life-stylin' for various reasons, like with most social media presentations. Your mileage WILL vary. Find out how much before you invest.



Now to practice what I preach... and save up for the next boat.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by timlabute

If you have to ask...

The LadyK (OP) crew are obvious not THAT young...you've got greying hair FFS!

But...making a controversial post on a forum is one way to promote your channel.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sure if Facebook is important to you, use it.

Just realize the people you're shutting out by choosing that as the platform for your efforts are not just the older ones.

That's all I meant, fully supportive of any and all online community building, to me that is the priority, the tech details are just means to that end.

Yeah, old farts like me dont do FB!