Addressing Misinformation and Harmful Content Online

[Westcliffe01]

Do what you like but don't clamor for help from the federal government which means using my taxes to bail you out. Do you think there is more land to live on in Asia ??? That's pretty rich. People from the northern latitudes think they can just keep moving down to Florida forever, well you are going to end up in a swamp, its that simple. Fine, build your house on concrete stilts 25 feet off the ground like they do in the keys, then your toes may stay dry when the next storm comes through. Maybe build it out of reinforced concrete, then it might actually be standing when its all over.
I went through hurricane Lothar in Germany on Dec 26 2000. Wind speed up to 200mph. A few tiles blew off the roof of the house I was in. Entire forests were blown down (more than 5 years timber harvest) but most German homes help up just fine. Funny enough, german homes are typically cheaper than US homes, but a bit smaller and take longer to build with masonry exterior and interior walls. No taxpayer should ever have to pay a dime for peoples cardboard houses that these storms blow over and disintegrate. Anyone who buys one is personally liable for living in that trash and perpetuating it on and on.

Originally Posted by geoleo

So shuold these people who need land to live on immigrate to Asia?

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Definitely polarized, the 'debate' on climate change, in line with many other public discussions. But over time the facts will bear out and either the climate will not change, or it will change a bit but won't threaten the human race in a material way, or it will turn out to be so bad that mankind will indeed face an existential threat.

Based on what I observe, hear and read, I am very much in the 'existential threat' camp and would like mankind to take action. If later I turn out to be incorrect in my view I will apologise profusely but we would end up in a world in which we took siginificant steps to move away from CO2 emissions, dumped no more plastic at will, halted soil erosion and restored a degree of bio diversity.

If however I was in the 'it will be alright' camp I would feel rather uncomfortable with the small doubt that I might be wrong in my view. Sorry at a later stage would no longer cut it as we come to the undeniable conclusion that indeed the existential threat has become reality. So I would still want to see action being taken, I might after all be wrong.

Regardless, if indeed I was in the 'it will be alright' camp, I certainly would not get too angry about what others are doing to fight climate change as in effect almost nothing is being done. Politicians are mainly making promises but doing nothing. I sometimes wish I was in this camp myself, it would make my life easier.

Well that was a fairly thoughtful personal impression of the debate-- however you own a large sailing yacht and probably have a big (compared to most) carbon footprint -----but you did not say just what you personally are doing to stop burning fossil fuels??? Why is that ? you are with it just "spiritually" but wont actually limit your comforts or convieniences??? I know "climate change thru CO2" is a religion in EU but come on SIr! Get with the program!

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Do what you like but don't clamor for help from the federal government which means using my taxes to bail you out. Do you think there is more land to live on in Asia ??? That's pretty rich. People from the northern latitudes think they can just keep moving down to Florida forever, well you are going to end up in a swamp, its that simple. Fine, build your house on concrete stilts 25 feet off the ground like they do in the keys, then your toes may stay dry when the next storm comes through. Maybe build it out of reinforced concrete, then it might actually be standing when its all over.
I went through hurricane Lothar in Germany on Dec 26 2000. Wind speed up to 200mph. A few tiles blew off the roof of the house I was in. Entire forests were blown down (more than 5 years timber harvest) but most German homes help up just fine. Funny enough, german homes are typically cheaper than US homes, but a bit smaller and take longer to build with masonry exterior and interior walls. No taxpayer should ever have to pay a dime for peoples cardboard houses that these storms blow over and disintegrate. Anyone who buys one is personally liable for living in that trash and perpetuating it on and on.

Two take aways 1. You should import one of those small German brick houses (especially the ones with the interior masonry walls) that stand up to 200 mph winds. 2. please do not come to florida as I live there and enjoy my swamp home an we are currently being "swamped" with people escaping from Michigan and NYC.

[Westcliffe01]

The simplest thing that climate disaster prophets could do is not procreate. That by itself will not only reduce your personal consumption, but with exponential effect if continued over generations.
But what do we see instead ? The destruction of the nuclear family. The welfare state. Incentivization of single mothers to have multiple children (4-8 by late 20's) to increase funding by the state and federal government (taxpayer). Conspicuous consumption by these groups of consumer goods and junk food (not cooking any meals). All medical fees covered by the government (taxpayer) thus no appreciation of the cost of medical treatment by this group.
These are the same people who keep voting for the side who keeps promising these benefits and also champion "climate change".
This is exactly the opposite of the systematic decrease in birth rate seen in Europe generally. But of course that problem has now been fixed by the current crop of EU leaders with their massive influx of refugees who have completely different belief systems than the native population.
Good luck with the beds that you have made and now will need to sleep in.

[Westcliffe01]

Thanks, I'm completely capable of building it myself. 2) You couldn't pay me to live in Florida, thanks.

Originally Posted by geoleo

Two take aways 1. You should import one of those small German brick houses (especially the ones with the interior masonry walls) that stand up to 200 mph winds. 2. please do not come to florida as I live there and enjoy my swamp home an we are currently being "swamped" with people escaping from Michigan and NYC.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

The simplest thing that climate disaster prophets could do is not procreate. That by itself will not only reduce your personal consumption, but with exponential effect if continued over generations.
But what do we see instead ? The destruction of the nuclear family. The welfare state. Incentivization of single mothers to have multiple children (4-8 by late 20's) to increase funding by the state and federal government (taxpayer). Conspicuous consumption by these groups of consumer goods and junk food (not cooking any meals). All medical fees covered by the government (taxpayer) thus no appreciation of the cost of medical treatment by this group.
These are the same people who keep voting for the side who keeps promising these benefits and also champion "climate change".
This is exactly the opposite of the systematic decrease in birth rate seen in Europe generally. But of course that problem has now been fixed by the current crop of EU leaders with their massive influx of refugees who have completely different belief systems than the native population.
Good luck with the beds that you have made and now will need to sleep in.

So Eugenics is good? Too many peeps ruin the stew? I get your drift Sir.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by geoleo

......and no forbidding leftist green new deal and climate changer alarmists flying around the world by themselves in their private jets polluting like hell
. Seems they are the huge hypocrits of all time. Something like a preacher going in a whorehouse ,worse!.

"John Oliver " has " lovely segments"?????

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

The simplest thing that climate disaster prophets could do is not procreate. That by itself will not only reduce your personal consumption, but with exponential effect if continued over generations.
But what do we see instead ? The destruction of the nuclear family. The welfare state. Incentivization of single mothers to have multiple children (4-8 by late 20's) to increase funding by the state and federal government (taxpayer). Conspicuous consumption by these groups of consumer goods and junk food (not cooking any meals). All medical fees covered by the government (taxpayer) thus no appreciation of the cost of medical treatment by this group.
These are the same people who keep voting for the side who keeps promising these benefits and also champion "climate change".
This is exactly the opposite of the systematic decrease in birth rate seen in Europe generally. But of course that problem has now been fixed by the current crop of EU leaders with their massive influx of refugees who have completely different belief systems than the native population.
Good luck with the beds that you have made and now will need to sleep in.

We agree lots on these bad situations . But just who is your missive addressed to when you tell who to sleep in those beds they made??

[Westcliffe01]

If people want to save the world, then curbing your offspring would seem to be a small sacrifice. Even 1 child vs 2 will make a huge difference. Who really thinks the entire problem is not simply that there are too many people on the planet ? Expanding the population makes no logical sense. But everyone is going to pretend that society is capable of supporting the ever increasing populations needs for water, food, housing, work, transportation etc are possible while saving the planet.
I grew up in Africa, where prior to Aids the population doubled every 8 years. There is no way to keep up with that, just look at India, Afghanistan and today China, where they have polluted themselves into oblivion. Even if growth is slower, it has to reach a point where the smallest problem (even a volcanic eruption) could lead to crop failures that result in a massive die off.

Originally Posted by geoleo

So Eugenics is good? Too many peeps ruin the stew? I get your drift Sir.

[Westcliffe01]

The general population who through inaction have allowed for some pretty crazy actions to be taken on their behalf by their governments. Comparable in many ways with how Germany allowed Hitler and his party to become as powerful as they did.

Originally Posted by geoleo

We agree lots on these bad situations . But just who is your missive addressed to when you tell who to sleep in those beds they made??

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

The general population who through inaction have allowed for some pretty crazy actions to be taken on their behalf by their governments. Comparable in many ways with how Germany allowed Hitler and his party to become as powerful as they did.

I suppose you mean Angela Merkel and her like who invited millions of illegals
from Asia and Africa to come in to Germany .Do you she did it mostly to get cheap labor and hold German citizens wages down and she was paid off by German business owners? (like in USA) Or she felt sorry for them because they were poor and stupid an she wanted to virtue signal?? Your choice.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by geoleo

So Eugenics is good? Too many peeps ruin the stew? I get your drift Sir.

Your a little late to join the Eugenics bandwagon. In the 50s and 60s all the leftist liberals were spouting the "world overpopulation" Malthusian mantra. Since then they have swiched to "the "Help all those poor people " mantra and the "transgender sex switching". fad. Personally I feel we need better people ,not more people. But just how that can happen I have no idea-not thru socialism--- Im sure of that.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by geoleo

Well that was a fairly thoughtful personal impression of the debate-- however you own a large sailing yacht and probably have a big (compared to most) carbon footprint -----but you did not say just what you personally are doing to stop burning fossil fuels??? Why is that ? you are with it just "spiritually" but wont actually limit your comforts or convieniences??? I know "climate change thru CO2" is a religion in EU but come on SIr! Get with the program!

And that's part of the problem, the choice is rather stark. Either I deny there is an environmental issue or I am a hypocrite. I choose to be the latter. I am the owner of a plastic lump in the shape of a boat and this does indeed bother me. I have thought about selling it for reasons discussed here as the situation is rapidly worsening, but looking after it to ensure this boat can reach 100 years I have found a better choice. While doing that one activity which I have loved all my life.

And then I do or don't do the things which I am able to impact (minimal use of single use plastics & plastic recovery while sailing in the Med, no meat consumption, no flying, no car, tiny rented apartment) to offset in some way. But I am not holier than thou and I am indeed part of the problem with my hypocritical existence. Denying there is a problem is not the answer though because doing so en-masse will benefit only those who do not give a damn about you and me: the very rich who are right now in the process of sucking out every last penny of wealth from all of us (both in money terms and in environmental terms), egged on by our governments.

And going back to this thread topic, it is also this 'elite' which is egging on the nonsense being spouted on the internet, turning people like you geoleo against people like me, even though in real life we might have been quite in agreement on most topics (we are fellow sailors after all right?).

Divide and conquer is alive and well.

[danstanford]

As for the question of bringing facts, I heartily support the idea. There have been a few times in my life where I believed facts until I did a little research. It is good for the heart and the brain to discover you have the ability to rise above your beliefs occasionally and learn something new.
I would guess all of the people who have taken the time necessary to wade through this thread are thoughtful people capable of handling, and even enjoying, the nuanced answers that arise with some research. Admitting that you were wrong every once in a while is great for your relationships as well.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by geoleo

My fact is that the USA Governments NOAA states that sea rise along USA coasts has risen 5 3/4 inches in the past 100 years from 1919 to 2019. You say it is an untruth - I say it is a fact. So here is your opportunity to shine fella. YOU STATE YOUR FACT REFUTING MY FACT ---OR SHUT lolol

The lie is exactly what I quoted. Not the NOAA data, but your claim that:

For example /"Sea Level rise" to hear the leftist mantra we will be deluged in 12 years.

There is no "leftist mantra." No credible source is saying we will be deluged in 12 years.

Unless you can provide a credible source for this lie, I say SHUT .