Americas's Cup settles Mono vs Cat once and for all?

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I support the tighter nationality rules as it makes sense since it's countries that compete. But if the format ends up being primarily about racing skill then we might as well skip the actual racing and just let NZ keep the cup lol .

The Americas Cup is a competition between yacht clubs. The hoo-rah nationalism is all about marketing.

[messias]

Originally Posted by sck5

A simple way to solve this problem would be to tell the various contestants that the race will happen whether there are waves or not. If their boat is too slow or unable to sail at all in the conditions that happen to occur then they lose that race. Shocking fact: There are waves on the ocean! Sometimes big ones!

Now THAT'S talking! 100% with you!

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Just to clear up some confusion about F1.



F1 generally bands driver aids.



Drivers have to launch the car themselves.

https://youtu.be/5Rsz4yW53aM



Cars have brake bias adjustment but no anti-lock systems.



Yes, the cars are super complicated hybrids.

Mercedes just announced they will be selling a supercar with lots of actual parts and tech from the F1 team.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...-for-the-road/

It will be heavier of course but also have motors hooked to the front wheels.





I think racing almost always has positive trickle down effects.

I don't follow racing like I used to, but F1 did go that way years ago, as technological aids. It's simply faster. Active suspension for instance, but banned that stuff and has I believe gone back to the driver being more the deciding factor.
They could and have built much more powerful and faster cars in the past.
One could even argue that aerodynamics is "cheating"
However racing is defined to a great extent by trying to find ways to go faster than the other guys, remember back in the 70's I guess it was with four front wheels, and cooling fans that actually sucked the car to the ground as they drew air from underneath?

My favorite is the Gurney flap, an aerodynamic marvel that shouldn't work, but does and has been adopted mostly by helicopters, but was invented by Redneck Engineering on the race track
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney_flap

[barnakiel]

Back to monos, back to nationalism, back to the cave.

Non-french sailors should be banned from the Vendee Globe and the Mini because those are French events.

Mapfre should be banned from Volvo Ocean because Mapfre does not build cars.

All sailors should be male, white and Christians, or otherwise the event contradicts the long established tradition of match racing.

The place of rubbish is in the basket, not in what is assumed to be a 21 century sailing event.


Cheers,
b.

[IdoraKeeper]

White pants, double breasted blue blazer with brass buttons, yachting cap. Schooner rig, wood construction....no mass appeal...then I would watch. Come on, the race needs snob appeal. :-)

[messias]

No need to go into extremes...

I don't think anyone here is saying 21st century events should't have 22nd century tech... much less that those crews don't know how to sail (hell... I'm certain they'd beat me with their eyes closed... but I don't like racing anyway, so I'd beat them in lazyness, beer and wine drinking on any windless day)

but (for me and me alone) those sailing events have "lost" (the really HUGE) interest I used to have in them. To see a fully empty carbon hull flying on foils is (sailing wise, not engineering wise) just not so interesting.

If they can figure out a way to attach a sailboat to gigantic kite 10,000ft above, manage to get the boat airborne, and come up with another way to control flight level... as much as it would be an engineering miracle, I would still not consider it "sailing". Would you, 21st century tech fans?

That being said... if they can do that like IdoraKeeper suggested, with White pants, double breasted blue blazer with brass buttons, yachting cap. Schooner rig, wood construction... then I am absolutely taking down this post!

[Jim Cate]

Come on, guys! There are plenty of races, even high profile races, that involve sailing in he open ocean, or in protected waters in all weather states. There are races for cruising type boats, even Colin Archer types (SF Bay area). So, why all the angst about high tech boats (vessels if you insist) in the AC? Surely there is a place for no-holds-barred run what ya brung sail racing. Such activities are very expensive, so it's fairly obvious that only well heeled people or corporations will be principals in the game.

If you don't enjoy that facet of sailing, don't watch or get emotionally involved, but let's stop criticizing those who do enjoy the spectacle and the hype and the innovation that the AC brings.

And while I'm perched up here on my soap box, arguing about what to call these craft/boats/machines is pretty juvenile and does nothing to improve CF.

Jim

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Come on, guys! There are plenty of races, even high profile races, that involve sailing in he open ocean, or in protected waters in all weather states. There are races for cruising type boats, even Colin Archer types (SF Bay area). So, why all the angst about high tech boats (vessels if you insist) in the AC? Surely there is a place for no-holds-barred run what ya brung sail racing. Such activities are very expensive, so it's fairly obvious that only well heeled people or corporations will be principals in the game.

If you don't enjoy that facet of sailing, don't watch or get emotionally involved, but let's stop criticizing those who do enjoy the spectacle and the hype and the innovation that the AC brings.

And while I'm perched up here on my soap box, arguing about what to call these craft/boats/machines is pretty juvenile and does nothing to improve CF.

Jim

Couldn't agree more. Let the billionaires find out how fast one can go using wind power alone.

Watch the J Class races for tradition, if that's what you need. (They were even at the AC race this year, so all can be pleased.)

[barnakiel]

To me, two latest editions with foiling cats were the best sailing watched ever. The latest edition could not be watched live on youtube free though, which sucked big way.

Pre-start games in the latest edition were cream, way above and beyond the rubber turtle and inching snail games seen in monohull match racing. I yawn and turn to another channel. Monohull match racing. Berk.

The foiling cats sailed fast and made fabulous foiling noise, the races were short and interesting, there was little downtime and except for my inability to watch it live on youtube (their greed + my tightasseness) I loved it.

I am not going to watch any silly young males from anything Royal something chasing other equally rich and well born boys of some other nation on some silly tidal and well known for iffy winds harbour.

I like the Kiwis. I used to live there and I was treated well. I think the decision of the organizer to go for monos and national teams is a huge mistake. I am not going to watch that.

Sicilly, btw, is not the place know for something else that sailing?

Shame.

b.

[messias]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

(...) and does nothing to improve CF.

Jim

Point taken... and I have to agree with you here. Sometimes we let the "passion" take the leading edge and forget about what is really important. And In the end, that's different for everyone.

[250224]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The place of rubbish is in the basket, not in what is assumed to be a 21 century sailing event.

Does it blend?

Blending everything, culture, tradition, people, (hulls) .. until it's a uniform uninteresting mixture has (should have) nothing to do with 21 century.

I do find it great, that the kiwis/italians show courage and kick out the dull tv-friendly multihull "sailing" circus featuring arbitrary global "gladiators". It was a disgrace to the oldest sports trophy (imho of course).

[250224]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The latest edition could not be watched live on youtube free though, which sucked big way.

With this I fully agree.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

To me, two latest editions with foiling cats were the best sailing watched ever. The latest edition could not be watched live on youtube free though, which sucked big way.

Pre-start games in the latest edition were cream, way above and beyond the rubber turtle and inching snail games seen in monohull match racing. I yawn and turn to another channel. Monohull match racing. Berk.

The foiling cats sailed fast and made fabulous foiling noise, the races were short and interesting, there was little downtime and except for my inability to watch it live on youtube (their greed + my tightasseness) I loved it.

I am not going to watch any silly young males from anything Royal something chasing other equally rich and well born boys of some other nation on some silly tidal and well known for iffy winds harbour.

I like the Kiwis. I used to live there and I was treated well. I think the decision of the organizer to go for monos and national teams is a huge mistake. I am not going to watch that.

Sicilly, btw, is not the place know for something else that sailing?

Shame.

b.

all too true.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Barnakle, Downunder, I bet you'll be watching it.

Do ya really think, a 65 foot foiling monohull, fully crewed, capable of 40 knots or more, doesn't offer everything offered by the 45 knot capable foiling cats, and then some? But lets hope for "proper" sailing crew, bow-men, sail handlers (maybe), grinders (maybe), and a minimisation of computer control, and maybe no wingsails.

At one stage it was being predicted the next AC if sailed on the cats would supplement the cyclists further, becoming truly multi sport with sex equality with a white skirt tennis player serving a ball to a target on the crossing boat's wingsail, a dunking of an opposition team member with every direct hit, some Tampa pole dancers swinging acrobatically around the mast, with a computer geek trying to knock her off (the mast). But that all changed when Oracle didn't win.

(Oh yes - off point - one of the "Cyclor" members of Team NZ in Bermuda had never been in a yacht race prior to the AC in Bermuda! - He was an olympic (I think) cyclist - no sailing skill required by two of the four crew, it's true - just engine power!)

The new mono's, a further development on from the Volvo race 60 ft mono's may not be as good as that prediction (haha), but, You'll rescind, embrase progress, and I reckon you'll be watching it on youtube (providing the DB's (Dumb Bastards) allow it. And you'll crack a tinny during the ads for Emirates)).

PS - I vote if floats and can carry someone its a type of boat, unless its a ship. Raft is a type of boat, cata is a type of boat. Same with Canoe. All boats. It's all "Boating". With wind power, its still Boating, subset of boating sailing. Can't see how that can be successfully argued against.



Let's hope the

[hafa]

Originally Posted by Scotty Kiwi

...multi sport with sex equality with a white skirt tennis player serving a ball to a target on the crossing boat's wingsail, a dunking of an opposition team member with every direct hit, some Tampa pole dancers swinging acrobatically around the mast, with a computer geek trying to knock her off (the mast).

Me likes! Maybe Cirque du Soleil will put forth an entry with acrobats and an equine challenge!