English Channel - A political/migration question

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Simply arriving with or without documentation ( torn up or not ) does not make you an “ illegal immigrant”. All developed countries have policies around claiming asylum or in fact processes to determine if you should be allowed to stay.

Clearly when that legal process is applied and determining ones arrival status has concluded and you are denied residency, if you remain you are then an “ illegal immigrant “

Have boatie is wrong to use the common term “ illegal immigrant “ as most of those people have not had a legal definition of their acces to the U.K. determined

After all the presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of U.K. justice !!!!

FREE JULIAN??

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Why is it not considered working in the country if you are in the country doing a job for which you're being paid? And do you honestly obtain a business visa for every country you deliver to, or stop at on your delivery? If so, you're an exception in the delivery industry.

Because that's not how it works. Phil is exactly right. You don't need a work permit if you are a seaman entering or passing through a country's water on a passage originating or ending in a foreign port.

For example, the UK rules:

"8. CRM1.8 Seafarers and work permits

"Under the immigration rules, a seafarer will need permission to work to:

• join ferries operating between two UK ports, including ports in Norther Ireland, but not the Channel Islands or Isle of Man;
• join ‘ro-ro’ services between UK ports which carry twelve or more lorry drivers;
• join dredgers operating wholly or largely within UK waters; or
• join scheduled domestic freight services between UK ports.

"Work permits are not required by the following:

• those joining ferry services to ports outside the UK, including ports in the Channel Islands and Isle of Man;
• those joining ships which will be operating out of a single UK port but where the voyage is primarily outside UK waters, for example, voyages to offshore installations, offshore dredging and dumping operations;
• entertainers, hairdressers and others not strictly crew members who are joining a ship to work on it during its voyage may be treated as contract seamen, that is, not needing work permits, provided you are satisfied that they are due to leave the UK on the ship’s next sailing."

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ilo-convention


The rules in the U.S. and other countries are similar. And by the way, that includes UK flag ships.

[goboatingnow]

In general if you are not residing in a country or a tax resident there , it’s not illegal to be paid from outside the state for a limited period ( this is usually enshrined in local tax law )

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Simply arriving with or without documentation ( torn up or not ) does not make you an “ illegal immigrant”. All developed countries have policies around claiming asylum or in fact processes to determine if you should be allowed to stay.

Clearly when that legal process is applied and determining ones arrival status has concluded and you are denied residency, if you remain you are then an “ illegal immigrant “

Have boatie is wrong to use the common term “ illegal immigrant “ as most of those people have not had a legal definition of their acces to the U.K. determined

Illegal immigration refers to the migration of people into a country in violation of the immigration laws of that country, or the continued residence without the legal right to live in that country. Illegal immigration tends to be financially upward, from poorer to richer countries. Illegal residence in another country creates the risk of detention, deportation, and/or other sanctions.


After all the presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of U.K. justice !!!!

Here speaks a man who has obviously never been subject to a 4am Stop & Search walking to a train station to catch a train, or a 2am traffic stop when the officer discovers half a dozen 8oz plastic bags of ready mix plaster under the passenger seat and thinks he's made a major drugs bust...
The dickhead even tasted it..

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Here speaks a man who has obviously never been subject to a 4am Stop & Search walking to a train station to catch a train, or a 2am traffic stop when the officer discovers half a dozen 8oz plastic bags of ready mix plaster under the passenger seat and thinks he's made a major drugs bust...

The dickhead even tasted it..

I was being facetious

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I was being facetious

I just wanted to tell what in retrospect has become a funny story..
At the time, a couple of 10+ hours sitting in the cells was not so funny..

[RaymondR]

Many of the arguments from the "open borders" side of the illegal immigration issue tend to deliberately ignore the fact of the UNHCR, an organization with the specific brief for the legal and orderly resettlement of genuine refugees. In Australia a great deal of effort in re-branding all illegal immigrants as "asylum seekers" has successfully been given effect by the "open borderers" and their accomplices in the media.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Many of the arguments from the "open borders" side of the illegal immigration issue tend to deliberately ignore the fact of the UNHCR, an organization with the specific brief for the legal and orderly resettlement of genuine refugees. In Australia a great deal of effort in re-branding all illegal immigrants as "asylum seekers" has successfully been given effect by the "open borderers" and their accomplices in the media.

One needs to differentiate between refugees / asylees and the other types of migrants, be the other migrants legal or "illegal". There is not just one class of migrants. It is not illegal to be a refugee / asylee, it is very much a legal status. Do not mis-brand refugees / asylees as being illegal, that is simply incorrect and improper adjective and a misuse of that adjective indicates an ignorance of the laws.

Specifically as to Australia:

The Government of Australia is a signatory to the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol and has undertaken to adhere to international standards in the protection of asylum-seekers and refugees. Persons applying for asylum in Australia are subject to the national laws and asylum procedures that are in place.

UNHCR has a supervisory role with regard to the implementation of the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees in Australia.

[laird]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yup.. we are bastards..
However on the plus side we are offering 3 million Hong Kong citizens the legal right to relocate to the UK following the Chinese suppression of Democracy..
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56669016...27s%20autonomy.

There's the right way, and there's the wrong way...
But be careful with those stones..

Where the hell.are we going to put all of those take aways ?

There's lot of fried rice

[RaymondR]

Montanan, that's all true however,

governments in democracies are subject to political pressures and whilst immigration matters in Australia are generally treated politically with bipartisanship by the body politic and forbearance and tolerance by the public a significant portion of one side of the political spectrum is not beyond perversion of proper and lawful immigration procedures in order to achieve an electoral benefit.

As a consequence that portion of the body politic which wishes to maintain the integrity of the system and it's broad public support are obliged to large expenditures of public monies and the acceptance of repeated slanderous charges of " a lack of compassion".

The culprits well know that legislative action in the parliament would allow the imposition of a better regime to prevent people smuggling however they are reluctant to forgo the benefits perversion brings and hence the implementation of what appear to be harsh policies to ensure the integrity of the entire immigration administration system including the refugee resettlement program.

[Montanan]

Refugee Status Determination process in Australia:

https://www.kaldorcentre.unsw.edu.au...tion-australia