Findacrew? A query..

[El Pinguino]

There is a boat out there on findacrew.... I know it is filthy down below and the skipper is allegedly a trifle unhinged....
I also know 7 women ( and have met 4 of them) who have traveled long expensive miles to join this yacht in the last 2 years and all have bailed out ( without sailing in her ) after periods varying between 4 hours and about 4 weeks.

A number of them have emailed findacrew and suggested that this boat should be 'delisted'... findacrew's response is that unless the owner has been charged with some offence by the polis they will not take any action. The owner is a 'premium ' findacrew member so is obviously worth a few $$ per annum to them.

I don't think bad attitude, poor hygiene, and not having washed the dishes in the last ten years are things the polis actually take an interest in but who knows....

So what action should these women be taking to ensure more wimmin don't waste their time and money? As I write this I believe yet another victim is in transit from South Dakota or Oklahoma or somewhere..

Why do these sheilas turn to El Pinguino for advice? Just a caring sort of a bloke I guess....

[DavidLGCrawford]

It's a shame that more websites dont have a rating system like Ebay does. That way people could comment on and rate each other. It works both ways too with both the boat and the crew rating each other. If a particular crew or boat had one bad rating out of dozens, no big deal, not everyone gets alomg with everyone. But multiple negative comments would be a warning to the next person that maybe they should investigate more first...
Just my two cents.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by DavidLGCrawford

But multiple negative comments would be a warning to the next person that maybe they should investigate more first...
Just my two cents.

Exactly.... with Findacrew you can give a negative review but they just bin it ..

'Yes, but we will NOT show it on either profile. Firstly, there is no merit in doing so, because a reference is your view and is therefore subjective even if it appears factual. Secondly, it's not legal in most countries and you and our network could be held accountable for possible defamation.

But what if I want to warn other people?
DON'T take the law in your own hands! If a person is a risk to other people or committed a crime, we suggest you contact the respective or available authorities (Police, Coast Guard, Harbour Master, Fire Brigade, Family Services, etc). Posting on blogs, forums or any other unauthorised outlet helps no one else then warn the (possible) offender that it is time to change his or her identity or conduct their offences in a less obvious way and reminding them to leave less evidence behind next time.''

They appear to think that socially unacceptable behaviour, which may not be a crime, is not a problem and that you should not be able to report it.

[BandB]

If it is as you describe, it's obvious they are only interested in the ad revenue. It is clearly then a "proceed at your own risk" site. Now, I don't know a good way to reach a potential crew member. I do know that if you intend to travel that distance to crew for someone you don't know, you really need to ask for references from former crew members or something more that will help you decide. This is another reason to relocate if you're thinking of crewing so you can check various boats out without the travel.

The things they say about illegal and liability are just bogus. "Not legal in most countries" and "network held liable." If that were actually true then ebay and Amazon would certainly not allow reviews. The fact is that opinions are legal. Defamation is communication of a false statement but generally must be one that you know is false. To state an actual experience factually is not defamation. To state "I met him and was very uncomfortable as he was talking to me inappropriately" is not defamation. Now, second, the network or site isn't liable for your opinions or statements. Only if they know you're posting false defamatory information and they then refuse to move it does the burden shift to them.

Based on their padding of reviews by refusing to allow negative and their response to the inquiries, I'd look at all of the ads there with a sense of skepticism until proven otherwise. You know nothing about the other person. It is then the equivalent of responding to an ad on craigslist. Well, except craigslist does allow negative postings.

[TDC]

Any suggestions for other sites that might be better? Or for that matter other crew lists in general?

Even eBay has issues with retaliatory feedback/etc. I don't think there's a perfect method, but certainly sounds like there's room for improvement.

[rockDAWG]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

There is a boat out there on findacrew.... I know it is filthy down below and the skipper is allegedly a trifle unhinged....
I also know 7 women ( and have met 4 of them) who have traveled long expensive miles to join this yacht in the last 2 years and all have bailed out ( without sailing in her ) after periods varying between 4 hours and about 4 weeks.

A number of them have emailed findacrew and suggested that this boat should be 'delisted'... findacrew's response is that unless the owner has been charged with some offence by the polis they will not take any action. The owner is a 'premium ' findacrew member so is obviously worth a few $$ per annum to them.

I don't think bad attitude, poor hygiene, and not having washed the dishes in the last ten years are things the polis actually take an interest in but who knows....

So what action should these women be taking to ensure more wimmin don't waste their time and money? As I write this I believe yet another victim is in transit from South Dakota or Oklahoma or somewhere..

Why do these sheilas turn to El Pinguino for advice? Just a caring sort of a bloke I guess....

Why don't you post the boat name and other info for all of us to see. Let it be buyer beware. If the captain wants to defend his name, the better.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by TDC

Any suggestions for other sites that might be better? Or for that matter other crew lists in general?

Even eBay has issues with retaliatory feedback/etc. I don't think there's a perfect method, but certainly sounds like there's room for improvement.

Well, first, this is a very good warning for everyone-owners, captains, crews. Know who you're dealing with. Do reference checks. Ask about former crew or boats.

While crew agencies have their issues, I'd go with them long before just a random listing. There are also other crew sites like Triton and Dockwalk, but a classified is still a classified.

I would always recommend meeting and interviewing prior to offering or accepting a position. An interview isn't just for the one hiring. It's a tool for the one being hired too. Crew is employment and roommate all rolled into one.

If you're going to go after crew jobs you really need to be located where they are. Go and get a room in a crew house. Then you can search carefully, meet people, and also pick up information from others in the industry. I suspect if one of the ladies had been offered a job on his boat and come back to a crew house telling her good fortune they might well have been warned as the word gets around on the street quickly. I'll take Fort Lauderdale because I'm knowledgeable of it. If someone develops a bad reputation there they'll have a very hard time hiring. That is probably why this person was hiring long distance and hiring people who had to fly in. The local market knew. There are more than enough available crew members at the ports that one wouldn't need to go elsewhere to find a stew.

I'll bet there were other clues too. Bet he didn't request references from them either. Probably not much about their credentials or experience. Did they have their STCW 95's? Had they crewed before?

You also mention bad attitude. Well, lots of owners and captains have bad attitudes. Poor hygiene. I've not known an owner's hygiene to come into conversation. Now crew's does. Having not washed the dishes. Guess he really did need crew. Ok, so the guy was a dirty jerk. Actually crew runs into so much worse. They often encounter hands all over them, suggestive conversation, other forms of sexual harassment, drunk captains, drugs on board. Again an interview and walk through of the boat would have set off alarms. But just the fact one is looking for crew is the first alarm. What happened to the last crew member? One has to go into an interview looking for clues.

Really, you're not going to change this person. The task is to make those looking for jobs be more cautious. This happens in all areas. I know a person changed companies in the corporate world for a great promotion and huge salary increase. One day in he found out the owner was a crook. Three weeks in he had shots fired in his front yard. Yes, it fit "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is."

One other point if I'm findacrew. Did this person misrepresent any material fact in his ad? If so then they have an obligation to take interest. But they are not a crew agency. They are simply a classified listing. That would be an advantage of using a crew agency. If they received repeated complaints, they would remove a listing. They're being paid a fee for placement of people. Findacrew is being paid just for use of their webspace.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by rockDAWG

Why don't you post the boat name and other info for all of us to see. Let it be buyer beware. If the captain wants to defend his name, the better.

For those who actually were directly involved to post that on sites such as Dockwalk might be allowed. I don't know. But for a third party to post it on a site that isn't a crew site, such as this forum, wouldn't and shouldn't probably be allowed.

[ozskipper]

All Crewfinder does is allow contact to happen between parties. No different to here on the crewing pages. Its not for the owners/mods of crewfinder to make decisions based on single sided arguments- regardless of anecdotal evidence.

Thats like saying "I met a woman at the bar, now I dont like her, so the Bar should Ban her".

[rockDAWG]

Originally Posted by BandB

For those who actually were directly involved to post that on sites such as Dockwalk might be allowed. I don't know. But for a third party to post it on a site that isn't a crew site, such as this forum, wouldn't and shouldn't probably be allowed.

Freedom in exchange of info is good. After 4 years of active crewing and captaining, I do have my share of situations either because the boat or owner. Unfortunately, there is no way to warn others. OTOH, I am sure there are bad apple among the crews too.

Able to make an informed decision is always good for all of us.