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Sea Dreaming · 18-02-2017, 18:37

We are adding a bridge between our Bimini and dodger and I can't decide what fastener would be best. The Bimini etc was made by the po and uses common sense fasteners to attach an existing back curtain. The common sense fasteners seem like over kill but they are clever!

The plan for our bridge also includes adding a "fly" (just a 20" wide sunbrella strip) that can be pulled away from the cockpit and secured on the rail. This strip will be removable. It will just add a little more shade and rain cover when at anchor. Both the bridge and Bimini will have these strips. Also the bridge needs to be attached to the Bimini and dodger so it won't sag.

So I have to decide how best to attach the pieces. As I said, the common sense fasteners seem like over kill. Would snaps be a good choice?

Also, the edge of the stip will be secured to the rail. What size grommets are best? We will probably secure the strip to the rail with narrow line or even paracord. But we might like to use bungees sometimes.

Spindrift NH · 18-02-2017, 19:26

Zipper might be a good choice, it will not leave gaps and can withstand considerable tension

rbk · 18-02-2017, 20:01

Our past two have been zippers with storm flap to keep rain out.

capt-couillon · 19-02-2017, 01:20

Would go back with the "dot" common sense system. Overkill maybe, but you wont have the button snaps pulling out of the fabric as the system ages in the sun and salt. As to the "flys", we installed a couple on a friends boat with zippers up top, and grommets at the bottom. Grommets spaced at around 12" on center laced to the lifelines with small stuff. Diameter was whatever we had enough of hanging around. Worked well... no more dribble cup inside the cockpit combing.

**JPA Cate** · 19-02-2017, 01:40

Sea Dreaming, can you post a pic of what you call common sense fittings? please?

Ann

Alan Mighty · 19-02-2017, 02:18

Common sense fasteners are also called 'common sense turnbutton fasteners', 'Murphy fasteners', and 'Bourque fasteners'.

George William J. Murphy (born January 1868 in Canterbury, UK; migrated to the US in 1873) and Edward N. Cummings (born 1874 in Amesbury, Massachusetts, USA) formed the G. W. J. Murphy Company in 1905 to mass produce turnbutton fasteners. Murphy received a US patent for his improved curtain-fastener in 1907 (applied in 1906). In 1914, The Metal Stamping Company successfully challenged Murphy’s patent for its lack of innovation, leading to a succession of new patent applications from 1914 to the 1920s from the G. W. J. Murphy company, including by David Bourque.

See: US853206.pdf

Sea Dreaming · 19-02-2017, 04:46

Ann - comon sense are plain old twisty buttons. You probably have some on your mainsail cover.

Zippers to install the bridge makes sense. But the dodger and Bimini were made by the PO and I'm not sure I have the skill to alter her worknor if it realistically be done given the curves of the drip line. But my knowledge is limited : )

And what about grommet size? What size is "normal"?

**JPA Cate** · 19-02-2017, 20:24

Thanks for the pic, I call those "Twist The Dot" fasteners, like the old "Lift The Dots" for tonneau covers and the like.

None on our boom bag, at all: it has a covered zipper up its "spine".

I think you can do it with the "common sense" fasteners, but I personally would use YKK #10 zippers, for any "canvas", always made with a flap to cover the teeth. The flap can be a separate piece, just as long as the teeth get covered. Use PTFE thread. It's just so fast and easy to install the bit, when you start the zip, and bungees for the attachment to the lifelines, again for speed in going forward. While you plan, remember sometimes you get back to the boat, and extra windage needs to be removed in a hurry. Have fun with it.

Ann

Sea Dreaming · 20-02-2017, 18:09

Thank you for your good opinion Ann. I am still mulling this over. I'm not a great seamstress by any means. Just enough experience to be dangerous. I'm going to play with the zipper idea. I knew we had more of the dodger / Bimini material on board but I wasn't sure how much. However I discovered today that we have at least 5 yards. Plenty to mock up a zipper. I'm a little leary of zippers because the material is vinyl (or pvc?). The holes will stay if I don't get it right!

john61ct · 20-02-2017, 18:44

The videos from, and product lines carried by http://www.sailrite.com/All-Hardware...ners-and-Hooks seem excellent

SuW · 20-02-2017, 19:26

And what about grommet size? What size is "normal"?

I'd say a #1 or #0 grommet would be fine. They will take a 1/8" nylon line.

Don't use cheap grommets. Use spur grommets such as are sold by Sailrite - they come in brass or nickel plated. They are not that expensive but the tools to set them are a bit pricey. Borrow those if you can, unless you're a tool fiend and think you'll be doing this a lot

Sea Dreaming · 20-02-2017, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuW

And what about grommet size? What size is "normal"?

I'd say a #1 or #0 grommet would be fine. They will take a 1/8" nylon line.

Don't use cheap grommets. Use spur grommets such as are sold by Sailrite - they come in brass or nickel plated. They are not that expensive but the tools to set them are a bit pricey. Borrow those if you can, unless you're a tool fiend and think you'll be doing this a lot

I'm a gizmo nut, I bought the spur grommet tools this morning. But now I can loan them out : )

SuW · 20-02-2017, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

I'm a gizmo nut, I bought the spur grommet tools this morning. But now I can loan them out : )

That's the ticket! I reckon we had to buy a house in which to keep all the tools that we use on the boat! When we all finally croak there's going to be a heck of a yard sale!

I agree with what Ann said about using zippers. Did you say you were making the bridging piece out of vinyl or is the dodger edge vinyl?

Another thought; with your bungees check that the ends go through the hole in the grommet before you decide which one to use. Some bungees have thick plastic hooks that must be more than 1/8" thick (although you can loop line through the holes first).

Sue.

Bill Seal · 20-02-2017, 20:34

Sailmakers Supply is another good source for fabric, zippers, and SEAMSTICK TAPE. (Don't leave home without it)
I used a lot of 1.5" Velcro on my cockpit enclosure, it's about a year old, I'm waiting to see how long it holds up.