Help me decide, what to do with my weapons

[Stumble]

The only country I have ever felt the need to carry a weapon in was the US. And in many of the Carribean countries god help you if you get caught carrying a weapon off the boat. So the only time you will ever have a gun at hand if something happens is while on the boat. Which is also the time you are least likely to have an issue.

But even in that very narrow case, almost no country has as liberal a self defense law as the US does. Realistically in the US if someone breaks into your home, or boat any shooting will be assumed to be reasonable. That is absolutly not the case in the rest of the world. In most countries you will need to prove that you had a legitimate and real fear of grave bodily harm or death, to claim self defense.

So unless they are armed, and a pocket knife won't help, or have kicked in doors, you are going to be on trial for murder if you shoot a thief.

Add to this the regulatory difficulties, check in and out problems, and for the vast majority of cruisers they simply aren't worth it.

[sailorcherry]

Oh jeez! What on earth are you reading or watching????
I see why you want to go cruising - you desperately need to find some Zen.

Have you not spent much time outside the US? Which is one of the most dangerous places to live in for many reasons.

If you do some digging you will
see the consensus in the sailing community is love and cautious optimism, not hate and fear.

Most people are not so bad, actually.
Be kind and kindness finds you.
Be humble and respectful and expect the same. I believe people who meet cruisers automatically have a level of respect and interest in you (not to mention your tourism dollars). They admire your courage, independence and knowledge to navigate and operate a vessel and realize you must be open to their culture to want to visit them.

The best "weapon" travelling is your mouth! Learn a little local language, instant respect and de-escalation. Next, is humour, the best tactic of all, imho. Lastly, we can all find something in common with eachother so find common ground.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Kita

well folks I've tried to research this and I'm sure it's a thread that has been Beat to Death many times over. I'm sorry but I've missed them. I would like some fresh input about weapons on board.

Without regard to the various political views...

You would probably want to consider various physical issues.

Space on boats is at a premium, "rooms" aren't usually cubicle, bulkheads are often interrupted... so secure storage could be a challenge. A normal safe usually wouldn't fit unless the boat is considerably larger than many. Some of the sheet steel cabinets (Stack-On, etc.) could maybe work, depending. You could build something; maybe rebuild a setee with secure storage underneath, etc. Note that concentrated weight like that could impact the balance of the boat.

Humidity and salt air could lead to premature corrosion issues, unless you keep on top of that closely. That can affect both firearms and ammunition.

If you shoot enough to benefit from handloading... there's another whole space hog, what with bench, presses, dies, components, etc.

And so forth.

You've probably figured out there's a search function here, of indifferent quality. Try that. Some search engines on some forums (maybe here, too) need at least 4 characters to work, so you can try adding a wildcard asterisk (*) to three-letter searches (e.g., "gun").

FWIW, there's a "social group" (sub-group) for gun owners. Look in the Community tab, and find the list of all groups.

-Chris

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Kita

.... if I stay in US waters I got it covered I think....

.... I thought shooting trap off the bow of my boat would just be cool,,, but it might not be worth the trouble.....

Is that really true? Aren't your gun"rights" going to change as you go into different States?

Just when I thought I had read all the reasons for having guns on the boat along comes a new one. But have you tried this yet?

BTW - I don't care if you have a gun on YOUR boat. Only you can decide if the world is likely to be out to get you enough to justify it.

[bvander]

Every country has a different rulemail for weapons, check noonsite, it can help. Even Puerto Rico, has different regs than CONUS. So if your going to take a weapon do the research before hand, and confirm via email or phone before entering as many times customs websites are not up to date.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

If you shoot enough to benefit from handloading... there's another whole space hog, what with bench, presses, dies, components, etc.

Bulk gunpowder???

There's a new one when clearing into customs: "2 guns and 2 pounds of cordite. Don't worry, I promise I'm not making a bomb."

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Bulk gunpowder???

There's a new one when clearing into customs: "2 guns and 2 pounds of cordite. Don't worry, I promise I'm not making a bomb."

Heh...

It happens modern smokeless powders don't really explode, loose smokeless powder isn't all that easy to ignite...

But I take your point.

-Chris

[Steven UK]

Interesting... When I first came to the US I got interested in guns and specifically clay pigeon or sporting clays as it's known here. Now I'm starting to make preparations for cruising and all. This 'stuff' has to go reloading supplies and all, no more guns.

But what was interesting though is when I was stationed in China my shooting vest got packed that was stuffed with12g shells, scared the sh1t out of me when I found them. There all in the bottom of a Chinese river now. If the authorities had found them I would have been screwed.

[Kita]

Originally Posted by dlymn

I have just been reading that several stated in USA allow open carry; wearing a gun so that it is plainly visible and easily accessed. Whaaat!!!!. How does this make a society safe? I understand that you can wear a gun into a picture theatre but have to leave food brought from home at the ticket booth!

Having ready access to weapons encourages their use over trying to solve problems in non-violent ways. Look at the evidence from USA.

Haha,that is true about the movie theater, with a consent carry permit you can carry a weapon consealed, that is a must, it cannot be seen,not even an outline of it,has to be properly conceal unless it is a place that is considered open carry which are far and few between but there are few places you can do that but mostly it's concealed to be legal and you have to have a permit. and you do have to leave any food that you bring in. I guess the idea is if you get hungry or thirsty you buy from them at the concession stand. But respectfully though I would disagree that having the gun encourages their use it's strictly as a defensive thing it's not something you would pull out if you have a disagreement with someone although there's always a head case here and there that would do something like that but that's not normal by any means. The thought of someone else having a weapon will make you a polite person and make you think twice about attacking someone because you're angry about something stupid so in the end it really does make for a polite Society. I know it sounds crazy I know it does but it's funny as I mentioned before I go to Walmart and I have to lock all my stuff up to keep things from getting stolen but when you go to a gun show you can leave all your stuff laying out and nobody touches it it really is amazing how that works

[Kita]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Is that really true? Aren't your gun"rights" going to change as you go into different States?

Just when I thought I had read all the reasons for having guns on the boat along comes a new one. But have you tried this yet?

BTW - I don't care if you have a gun on YOUR boat. Only you can decide if the world is likely to be out to get you enough to justify it.

Yes the laws can change from state to state, what I ment by saying I got that is I understand what needs to be done here in the US. It would be my responsibility to look at the law for each state as I pass, and that could be a concern but considering the boat is my home I don't see it being a problem but that is something that will take more research to be absolutely sure I can do the Great Loop and still have the weapons on board I do believe this is possible but not necessary. I was thinking it might be nice to stop once in awhile and do a shooting competition while I am cruising. It is not about fear nor am I paranoid that the world is out to get me it is simply I enjoy shooting..

[Steven UK]

Originally Posted by Kita

Haha,that is true about the movie theater, with a consent carry permit you can carry a weapon consealed, that is a must, it cannot be seen,not even an outline of it,has to be properly conceal unless it is a place that is considered open carry which are far and few between but there are few places you can do that but mostly it's concealed to be legal and you have to have a permit. and you do have to leave any food that you bring in. I guess the idea is if you get hungry or thirsty you buy from them at the concession stand. But respectfully though I would disagree that having the gun encourages their use it's strictly as a defensive thing it's not something you would pull out if you have a disagreement with someone although there's always a head case here and there that would do something like that but that's not normal by any means. The thought of someone else having a weapon will make you a polite person and make you think twice about attacking someone because you're angry about something stupid so in the end it really does make for a polite Society. I know it sounds crazy I know it does but it's funny as I mentioned before I go to Walmart and I have to lock all my stuff up to keep things from getting stolen but when you go to a gun show you can leave all your stuff laying out and nobody touches it it really is amazing how that works

When I was in Kansas concealing was ileagal without a permit which meant it had to be carried in a visa able place, I.e. On the Belt. I never saw anyone doing it.

[Kita]

Originally Posted by Steven UK

When I was in Kansas concealing was ileagal without a permit which meant it had to be carried in a visa able place, I.e. On the Belt. I never saw anyone doing it.

there is much controversy about whether it should be open carry or concealed the laws different in each state. Some say that open carry make you a Target for someone to snatch the gun. Some would say the open carry would make the person not want to attack you because they know you are armed. And then you get the concealed controversy. even in a place where it's legal to carry open carry the police absolutely hate it and I think that's why most people don't do it because it really can cause unnecessary attention to yourself by the police and by other potential bad people.

[AiniA]

You have received lots of good advice from experienced international cruisers and I can only agree with it. A couple of more points. I can only think of one American cruiser we met (forget where now) who was packing and he followed all the local rules to the letter which was a pain and generally meant your weapon(s) were in a customs locker somewhere when you were in the country. One other American cruiser started with a handgun of some sort that he ditched in the middle of the Pacific since it was not worth the hassle. Generally you need to pick up your weapon at the same place you handed it in. This makes no sense in a place like French Polynesia where you might travel 2000 mile downwind from where you enter the jurisdiction. Don't know if this rule still exists but in Australia at one point you either returned to your entry point to get the weaponry or you paid for a customs officer to take the weapon to where you are leaving from - say from Brisbane to Darwin, probably $1000 of anyone's money.

Here is a real scenario for you. You are heading south about 50 miles off the coast of Ecuador when a panga, 22' or so comes rushing up with four dudes wearing full face masks. Their English is non-existent and your Spanish not much better. Are they potential robbers or what? Do you grab the 12 gauge you brought with you. It turned out they were fishermen who wanted to make sure we went around the end of their floating net. The masks were protection from the midday, equatorial sun. The asked for water (aqua was in our vocal). We gave them four plastic bottles and carried on with waves and smiles all-round. This was the only dicey experience we had in five years and it wasn't dicey at all.

The main thesis of Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' was not about guns, rather it was about the fact that corporations and many politicians in the US flourish by promoting fear of 'others' whether it is people who look different on down. Just consider the current situation. One thing I find fascinating when we tell people about our travels (about 40 countries/territories) is that non-Americans invariably ask, 'What was your favourite place?, while most Americans ask, 'Weren't you afraid?'

[Eder]

Cruisers 12 gauge

[Kita]

Originally Posted by AiniA

You have received lots of good advice from experienced international cruisers and I can only agree with it. A couple of more points. I can only think of one American cruiser we met (forget where now) who was packing and he followed all the local rules to the letter which was a pain and generally meant your weapon(s) were in a customs locker somewhere when you were in the country. One other American cruiser started with a handgun of some sort that he ditched in the middle of the Pacific since it was not worth the hassle. Generally you need to pick up your weapon at the same place you handed it in. This makes no sense in a place like French Polynesia where you might travel 2000 mile downwind from where you enter the jurisdiction. Don't know if this rule still exists but in Australia at one point you either returned to your entry point to get the weaponry or you paid for a customs officer to take the weapon to where you are leaving from - say from Brisbane to Darwin, probably $1000 of anyone's money.

Here is a real scenario for you. You are heading south about 50 miles off the coast of Ecuador when a panga, 22' or so comes rushing up with four dudes wearing full face masks. Their English is non-existent and your Spanish not much better. Are they potential robbers or what? Do you grab the 12 gauge you brought with you. It turned out they were fishermen who wanted to make sure we went around the end of their floating net. The masks were protection from the midday, equatorial sun. The asked for water (aqua was in our vocal). We gave them four plastic bottles and carried on with waves and smiles all-round. This was the only dicey experience we had in five years and it wasn't dicey at all.

The main thesis of Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' was not about guns, rather it was about the fact that corporations and many politicians in the US flourish by promoting fear of 'others' whether it is people who look different on down. Just consider the current situation. One thing I find fascinating when we tell people about our travels (about 40 countries/territories) is that non-Americans invariably ask, 'What was your favourite place?, while most Americans ask, 'Weren't you afraid?'

Your point is well made,thank you!