Hiding Guns on Board

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

well thats out on the net then

Yeah, hopefully the guy that bought that boat 20 years ago will read this and find that spot for his use!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Hollywood does it all the time. Wait...maybe that's the problem with these threads!

Oh yea, Hollywood. Where a revolver holds 66 rounds, machine gun clips hold a couple thousand and you can take a short barreled Uzi spray it in the general direction of the bad guys 300 yards away and take out a whole platoon in under 10 seconds.

Or even better, Hollywood where the cowboy points a lever action carbine at the bad guy who starts to go for a gun so the cowboy with the carbine levers the action to scare the bad guy. Except.... if there was no round in the chamber and he had to lever the action to load a round then it wasn't doing much good to point the gun in the first place. Or if there was a round in the chamber then he just ejected a good round onto the ground and there better be another round in the magazine to load or he is now empty.

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Gord...I can spot a divorce lawyer at 600 yards.

By sight or smell?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Oh yea, Hollywood. Where a revolver holds 66 rounds, machine gun clips hold a couple thousand and you can take a short barreled Uzi spray it in the general direction of the bad guys 300 yards away and take out a whole platoon in under 10 seconds.

Or even better, Hollywood where the cowboy points a lever action carbine at the bad guy who starts to go for a gun so the cowboy with the carbine levers the action to scare the bad guy. Except.... if there was no round in the chamber and he had to lever the action to load a round then it wasn't doing much good to point the gun in the first place. Or if there was a round in the chamber then he just ejected a good round onto the ground and there better be another round in the magazine to load or he is now empty.




By sight or smell?

All the above...But the first houmorous point I was trying to make and it has been made by many others from different countries than the one I hail from now, is...That people get all caught up in the Hollywood bad guy vs. good guy illusion. While people talk about going cruising "to get away from it all:, end up wanting to take it with them.
It doesn't matter that they are told time and time and time again that it's a BAD idea. Yet they want to argue about it. Look at every gun thread that has ever been started here. Where are OP's from? You know! The problem is far from "should I carry or hide a gun". It's should I stop believing in a fear that is rammed down my throat!


....there...I feel better now

[erobert]

Since only one person responded with an affirmative to hiding guns, I'd say that makes up my mind.

I do find it annoying the stereo-typing of Americans. I've never owned a gun in my life. Don't like the things. One others have said about hitting some one at long range is true, I admit it.

My desire to carry a gun doesn't come from a Hollywood perspective. I deterrent is what I seek. Does any one know if it's commonly illegal to carry a toy gun that looks very real from far away?

Where are OP's from? You know! The problem is far from "should I carry or hide a gun". It's should I stop believing in a fear that is rammed down my throat!

Canadian Killed in Northern Honduras.

Celestialsailor, I don't really believe you think no one is murdered on their boats, nor do I think you'd say they were asking for it. Desperately poor people will do desperate things. The sooner the American people stop voting for Presidents(Obama, Romney) who support military dictatorship in Honduras, the sooner Honduras can lift them self off the economic bottom shelf.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

All the above...But the first houmorous point I was trying to make and it has been made by many others from different countries than the one I hail from now, is...That people get all caught up in the Hollywood bad guy vs. good guy illusion. While people talk about going cruising "to get away from it all:, end up wanting to take it with them.
It doesn't matter that they are told time and time and time again that it's a BAD idea. Yet they want to argue about it. Look at every gun thread that has ever been started here. Where are OP's from? You know! The problem is far from "should I carry or hide a gun". It's should I stop believing in a fear that is rammed down my throat!


....there...I feel better now

Oh I well understand and agree. Too much TV, too much John Wayne mentality, too many video games where death and gore are trivialized and too many news programs where threats to personal safety are grossly exaggerated.

[Jimbo485]

When Atoll is back from his current delivery he might let you know where he hid his guns on his own boat during his RTW. But then again.... he might not.

[Capt Rottnest]

Originally Posted by erobert

...I'll quickly say, just in case any one want's a good read, Paul Lutus'es free book contains an account of a rusty shotgun deterring pirates somewhere in the Java sea.

I read that one a couple years ago. I think his account was paranoid in the least, he scared off a bunch of fishermen who wanted to have a chat, then made a comment that he wouldnt sail Indonesian waters without firearms. Aussies have been cruising Indo for decades, violent attacks aren't an issue.. sheesh.. he missed a great country.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by erobert

Since only one person responded with an affirmative to hiding guns, I'd say that makes up my mind.

I do find it annoying the stereo-typing of Americans. I've never owned a gun in my life. Don't like the things. One others have said about hitting some one at long range is true, I admit it.

My desire to carry a gun doesn't come from a Hollywood perspective. I deterrent is what I seek. Does any one know if it's commonly illegal to carry a toy gun that looks very real from far away?.

I find your thread topic and this post very confusing. Do you really think waving a fake toy gun will make you feel safe? What do you plan to do... Squirt the bad guy?

You describe yourself as one who dislikes guns, yet you wish to hide behind a toy.... I sincerely believe you need to reconsider cruising, self defense and safety before you get yourself into some real trouble.

[erobert]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I find your thread topic and this post very confusing. Do you really think waving a fake toy gun will make you feel safe? What do you plan to do... Squirt the bad guy?

A self-described fellow who dislikes guns, wishing to hide behind a toy....

Kenomac, Do you really think waving rhetorical questions adds any thing to the discussion? You're repeating points that have already been discussed at length in this thread. A deterrent is the point. If your confused, you might want to try reading what others have said in previous pages, or better yet, just read the title and the first post, then if you're still seeking validation come back and we'll tell you you're smart and witty.

I read that one a couple years ago. I think his account was paranoid in the least, he scared off a bunch of fishermen who wanted to have a chat, then made a comment that he wouldnt sail Indonesian waters without firearms. Aussies have been cruising Indo for decades, violent attacks aren't an issue.. sheesh.. he missed a great country.

Capt Rottnest, I wouldn't pull my fishing boat up to a boat after chasing him across the horizon, with a man standing on deck holding a shot gun looking unhappy, only to have a chat. But it's been a while since I've read it so I may have missed or added some thing to the story.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by erobert

Does any one know if it's commonly illegal to carry a toy gun that looks very real from far away?

Recently a little kid was shot here in N. California by an LEO while the kid was walking down the street with a plastic gun that looked too real.

You be the judge.

[CarinaPDX]

Many prospective cruisers react to the mountain of unknowns ahead of them by overdoing things. Regarding security, Americans especially seem to feel the need to prepare for the worst, and do so in the way they know best - with guns.

The truth is that the US is a far more violent place than most (but not all) places that one might visit. I have heard gunshots while aboard twice: the first time I was in a nice marina in Alameda, where I heard the gang-bangers in Oakland fighting it out, and the second anchored off the beach in Puerto de la Cruz, Venezuela, and have no idea who was doing the shooting. I don't think it is anomalous that these were the two places. In the first case I feel I was safe from crime in the marina, and in the second I would avoid the country in the future. Simple.

The real security risks for cruisers are from pickpockets (an almost unknown crime in the US), dinghy theft, and swimaboard/sneakaboard thieves - in that order. Learning to protect oneself from pickpockets and scammers, securing the dinghy (and really we are talking about the outboard), and using secure locks on the boat that protect when down below are the priority. I have seen American boats "secured" with padlock and hasp on the companionway (less than 5 seconds with large screwdriver to open, and no protection while sleeping) but armed to the teeth otherwise - completely backwards.

Please do not leave the US in fear - that IS what guns are about - but go forward welcoming the world (and still maintain awareness of risks). That is the way to have the best cruising experience.

Greg

[pbiJim]

I know from personal experience that certain shore-side law enforcement agencies have detailed books on what areas of cars can be used to smuggle very small items. These books are large & go into nauseating detail on specifics of individual makes, models, & years of cars. I do not know if similar documents exist to detail the possible hiding spaces on boats, but I would not be surprised if they did.

If you are considering hiding guns from law enforcement, I would advise against it. If you are looking to hide things from moderate quality thieves, that is a different story.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by erobert

Kenomac, Do you really think waving rhetorical questions adds any thing to the discussion? You're repeating points that have already been discussed at length in this thread. A deterrent is the point. If your confused, you might want to try reading what others have said in previous pages, or better yet, just read the title and the first post, then if you're still seeking validation come back and we'll tell you you're smart and witty..

Post #53 was my attempt to answer your post in a thoughtful manner and add to the discussion. You may want to read it. I read every post prior to responding.... But I was unaware at the time that some folks preferred to play with toys.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by erobert

Is it even possible to hide a gun in a sailboat. I've yet to sail internationally and don't know how stupid it would be to dismantle a rifle in the hopes immigration won't find a piece of it and figure out what it's for. It would be easy to hide a handgun but if they're close enough to be shot with a handgun then one might as well throw your hands up and try the Stockholm strategy. The goal for me would be to make it obvious to them before they're within range of even a rifle that I will be putting up a fight to persuade against belligerence.

Guys who spen their lives looking for stuff know what gun parts look like.

If the bad guys are close enough for you to be waving the thing, you'd better be using it. THey won't wait for formalities.

We have a high end metal flare launcher (22.5mm Polish army surplus) and several sub-caliber inserts to permit it to fire 22, 45 LC and 410 shot or slug. I plan to be able to hide the inserts well in our 58-foot boat. I understand that a flare launcher is not permitted in England and other northern European socialist destinations. I would much prefer to carry a real gun such as my 12 ga pump but the realities are that it will; get confiscated, stolen, get us in jail, worse. From what We have read, your best opportunity is for a singel shot or double shot (over-under or side-by-side) shot gun. A shot gun is easier to score on bad guys in pitching seas and at the range you might need need to deal with. I would choose 00 Buck and rifled slugs. Turkey magnums are devistating. Many countries will let you keep this. You will need a locked gun vault. You will need an inventory of ammunition and you will need to show you export ALL ammunition you import. Most 'police' do not like it you have better guns than they have. Some countires will not let you have anything. Consult NOONSITE regarding regulations. Some sailors buy inexpensive guns and lots of power when transiting bad places and sell/swap or dump when the danger is behind. I suggest - STAY AWAY. The rest of the world is not like the US. There is no NRA and no implied right to protect yourself or property. If you kill a local or even cause him to drown YOU are the guilty cowboy from the USA.

You might better spend money on better locks/bars for your hatches and companion way. BTW, I also have one of those devistatingly ragged hook knives for clearing lines from the prop - on a long stick. There is no way to grab this without loosing most of a hand.

[Richard Z]

Its not just Americans that like guns, or weapons. Its s human nature. There is no wrong in the need to carry them. However, carrying guns in my opinion should be left for the one who knows how to use them and will use them.
This post i believe is not whether to carry or not. The OP is not asking if he should or should not. He just wants to know how to hide.
Although this is not the place to discuss that, or give any info on such ways or methods of hiding, i have a few points.

There is one thing more dangerous than carrying a gun with out the intention or knowledge of using it...,flashing a toy gun. If you ever show a gun for self defense, you should be 99 percent ready to use or fire it. Period. All you are doing is activating the fight or flight mode in your attacker, and most probably it Will be the fight, since he is a bad guy.
Second point is if you want to hide a gun, you need to be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Third, if you do want to hide one, make sure you break it apart, wash your hands thoroughly then scrub them with a heavy degreasser, then wipe down each part heavily first with a cotton cloth, then with alcohol then degreaser then sprinkle a kind of common food flavor(u have to figure this out by your self). (U can send a pm for info) then wrap them in two or three layers, every time sprinkle more of the magic flavor. Then find your own hiding spot. Keep that personal. During all this, wear clean and new rubber or latex gloves and do not let anything touch your clothes, breath or hair.

You can just carry them on passages and do my first post while at port or anchor.
Good luck

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