Insurance Claims?

[bobfnbw]

Mule, thanks for the support.
Really after over 70 days of it, I am just tired of it all and just want it to go away.
I know thats what these guys expect me to do. I have a friend that said he would look into it, does contract law, that was a week ago, and expect to hear from him today or tomorrow. If I don't I have a couple of others I can call that live aboard here in the marina I am told.
The company is National Interstate. They were given to me via Blue water insurance.
They also was the Previous owners company.
The quote was for 1800 usd on a 65K hull value and 300K liability. They took the money.
I finally paid 7500 out of pocked just to get it back in the water, where additonal appraisial work is supposed to be done, and the company states they will stand behind it.... but after 1 week, no appraiser has been out.

[Alexei]

.....with any insurance, auto, homeowner, or boat.

Then again, I use USAA for everything but my boat. 'Nuff said there.

USAA doesn't do boat insurance though, so eventually I came around to Progressive. There rates have been reasonable up to this point. But literally on my first underway with Icefire back in July 2006, I ran afoul of some rocks off Biddeford Maine. The rudder had to be replaced, the keel reshaped, and a couple other things done. I think the total cost was $6000 or $7000.....never had an issue getting them to pay out, even though I'd literally had a policy with them for a month when it happened. Rates didn't go up too much after that either.



All that said, their quote for insurance here in Charleston once (if) I get her down here is almost $1000 more per year than BoatUS', so I may be switching when it comes time to renew policies next summer.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


Cheers,
Alexei

[bobfnbw]

I too bank and insure with USAA. They do not do boats as you said. They instead subcontract it out to progressive. Progressive will not do hull insurance/comprehensive on a boat this old (1983) or so they say.

[camaraderie]

I have had three claims over the years...two under $10k each with Boat US which were handled promptly and without any issues. I had to switch companies when we left for the Caribbean and used IMIScorp.net which issues a policy through Markel. After Hurricane Ivan we had a six figure claim and Markel was simply a joy to work with...they were fair, cooperative, had a sense of urgency and never batted an eye at any payment once their surveyor had gone over the boat with my surveyor.
They were recommended to us by folks at SSCA and they are not the cheapest in town...but boy did they take care of us well. NO AFFILIATION.

[bobfnbw]

Well my lawyer finally got around to reading up the policy and essentially they do no have to pay for the thru hull damages that caused the boat to sink in the first place, but have to pay for what damage happened after. So now all the adjuster seems to be focused on is how much to fix the engine. Not the other things. This will take over 6 months or more to get thru I am sure.

[Mule]

In Texas, if you have a shower pan leak the insurance co does not have to pay to replace the shower pan, but they have to pay for all the damage caused by the water such as rot of 2x4's and tearout of tile, replacement of tile and floor of shower, supplies and labor. The shower pan, for instance cost less than $100 but all associated cost thousands, because you have to tear out all to replace the covered water damage.

I knew of a case where a city water main broke and flooded a house. Ins refused to pay because the house was flooded by ground water. After a definition of "ground water" was provided they coughed up the cash. Seems "ground water does not have clorine in it and it does not come from a pipe, but from the ground or sky and is naturally occuring. these guys willstoop to any level until you corner them.

On the principle mentioned in the first paragraph you would be responsible for replacement of the through hulls but everything else falls to them. The through hull did not cause the damage, the water did. The through hull indirectly caused the damage but not the actual damage. Kinda like "what the meaning of is, is. I am not an attorney but even attorneys can miss sometimes. I am glad you got professional legal help, and I just threw that nugget in for thought above and perhaps another angle of attack on this game you are caught up in. I would imagine your attorney covered all the bases, but it cost nothing to mention it.

Nothing is immoral or unethical when you are dealing with the SOB's you are. If you have to play with a turd there is no way to avoid getting shi+ on your hands. The best example of an oxymoron is the often used term corporate morality. Good luck.

Did you get my PM?

[anotherT34C]

Some people get lucky with insurance claims, but it seems that for every prompt pay out there are at least a dozen instances of the insurance companies doing absolutely everything they can to weasel out of payment.

As for liability, does anybody actually KNOW of a case where an uninsured boater who wasn't grossly negligent was successfully sued for liability damages in the tens of thousands or more? Who is really perpetuating the fear that you might be sued for millions, and therefore require liability insurance?

[bobfnbw]

Originally Posted by Mule

[SIZE=3]

Did you get my PM?

Thanks Mule, I did.
The insurance company finally sent a check today for some of the amount.
This is of course over 3 months after the event, but at least I got something now to start the repair work. You are right that they didn't have to cover the thu hull corrosion and repair of that, but that they should/would cover the repairs of the damage the water ingress caused. I do not know though how much they will cover it, and they only sent 14,500 of a expected 22,000. They used the term sublet for the rest. I took that to mean that once I went thru the first 14500, then I could get the rest if a company directly invoiced them.
Also they sent the check in care of me and my finance company, who luckily also happens to be my bank, but I thought that was a bit strange. They hold the note, but have nothing to do with the operation and repair of the vessel.
We shall see.
Thanks for your help and interest.
Bob

[sundown]

I don't know about other countries but in Canada the 'broker' who sells you the insurance policy is only required to do "due diligence" with regard to the stability of the policy underwriters. That lesson cost me $10,000. When I lost my first boat, decades ago, two of the policy underwriters had gone into bankruptcy protection - one as a result of embezelment, and I don't know about the other. The broker claimed h did not know of thier finacial troubles. When the dust settled I had the option to sue the bankrupt policy underwriters to try and recover. One lawsuit was to be filed in the UK and the other in Asia. It was not cost effective to chase the lost money so I wrote it off as another of life's lessons learned. Make sure that the undewriter is at least in the country where you reside.

[TabbyCat]

Y'all need professional help! I can't even begin to count the number of pieces of misinformation so far in this thread. But here are a few truths about marine insurance....

1) All insurance people are not scum
2) Auto insurance in NOT the same as marine insurance. Unless you are boating in inland lakes only, marine insurance is covered by a different set of laws, so comparing the two is pointless
3) Uninsured Boaters is not like uninsured motorists. UB covers personal injury, not damage to your boat. If an uninsured boater hits & damages your boat, your hull coverage will pay for the repairs to your vessel, not the uninsured boaters coverage.
4) Yes, you would be better off getting insurance for your boat from a company that specializes in marine insurance. Preferably through an Agent that specializes in the same. If you ask your auto or homeowner's agent for a quote to insure your boat, chances are that they have not delved into the subtle differences between the policy language.
5) In order for a claim to be paid, it must be due to an "occurence". That means it must be sudden & accidental, unforseen. If the adjuster thinks your boat sank due to something that gradually deteriorated due to wear & tear, or your failure to maintain the vessel in a seaworthy condition, your claim could be denied.
6) You should only buy insurance form an A rated company.
7) It's human nature to complain about bad service but not to compliment good service, so the posts you see here may not be representative of overall satisfaction with marine insurance.

Fair Winds,
Susan

[bobfnbw]

TabbyCat, what you say is true. All insurance people are not scum, and I hope that in my posts I did not say that, or anyone else. But after dealing with this for over 3 months, I know that this company was not in any hurry to help me out. I did go to a professional broker, at least I thought I did, blue water insurance, who said that the company was A rated. But really what does that mean anymore ? Lots of banks that were A rated did a poor job with other people's money in the last decade.

I work in the health care industry, and can tell you multiple horror stories insurance company related. The truth is insurance companies are out for a profit, and there is nothing wrong with that I guess, but things are so crazy now with sue happy people and lawyers.... makes a person want to go crazy. But a good insurance company is gold when you need them. The operative word is good.
Not all are.
I insure other stuff with USAA, great company. I trust them to do the right thing.
I insure my home with Texas farm bureau, and trust them as well.

I wonder how many laws there are in the world,... no just in the USofA, and if there is anyone that knows and or understands them all. I would bet my boat that there is no one like that. Its insane.

Thanks for posting Susan. Good to hear from a professional. Wish I had talked to you a year ago.

Bob

[captmick39]

Originally Posted by Vasco

When my CS36 got hit by lightning the insurance company paid the boatyard promptly. I had replacement coverage and got all new instruments. I think the total bill was in the region of $15,000. Absolutely no problems. This was in 1995. Four years ago I was hit by an idiot while I was anchored off Normans Cay in the Bahamas. This was in broad daylight, about nine in the morning. The idiot was looking at a laptop on a cockpit seat and steering by that instead of looking ahead. Yes, there are idiots like that out there! Any way the repairs were fully covered by the insurance company. I did not have to pay a cent. These were two different companies. I have not had a problem with insurance companies and would not dream of sailing without insurance. Many marinas and boatyards will not let you in without proof of insurance.

Vs. Commentary on every posting...couple thoughts;
1-YES, auto vs. marine policies is like living on earth vs. the MOON. Nothing is the same.
2-MY Insurance company WILL pay for another, uninsured boaters ignorance in damaging my vessel (no problemo...for me, no increase in premium either) but GOD HELP HIM and HIS ASSET(s)...for they will be like rabid dogs on a bone.
3-Been w/the same company for 20+ years, multiple hulls, now they insure our Vehicles, Our House, AND our boats. They have a PREIMIER reputation in the industry & Have the name of "L.M." (think Freedom & "together", or collective).
4-Yes, we DO pay about $500. a year total, for ALL the policies than shopping them individually via our agent...worth every penny. Make the call, get the check. & God HELP YOU if You file a bogus claim against Your policy w/them, 1 of my best friends is a retired L/E officer who works in their Fraud Investigation Unit. They don't take prisoners.
5-We carry a high deductible ($2.5k) on the boat as anything shy of that I'll pay/fix myself...working in the industry lifelong, I know less than that figure, nearly ANYTHING it could be, I could/can/will be able to cover for less than 1/2 the "valuation" of the repairs. The rest is on them & I'll sit back & observe. Also required an Out of Water(in most recent case was already, before splashing after acquisition)Survey for market & replacement value. NO issues like double clamping thru hulls can be present ON THAT SURVEY & not dealt w/before policy goes in force, period). A 1975 boat, rehabbed in 2006-8, no problem, go figure.
6-been run in to, hurricane damaged, heard horror stories for decades (mostly topping those in this thread) being on the yards, AFTER the storms along the gulf & east coasts...Hartford, Progressive, & ironically the OP's company getting the worst of the "rap"...yet there's always 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine & the truth. Yep, many criminals are on both sides of the equation & often (since it works both ways) SOME of them (the Ins.Companies) TRY to screw policy holders...not always, & not every company.
7-Attorneys make fortunes in sitrep's like the OP's & 1 of them SHOULD have been his FIRST CALL after the Claims Dept. He'd have been back in the water in a week, rather than 70+ days, ntm, ZERO out of pocket (including FOR THE ATTY'S FEES) & that $7.5k gone can still be re-imbursed as well.
8-Don't know about other states, but Here, In FL, if You get Jerked Around by the responsible company for COVERED Damage (whether YOUR Company or "theirs")...when You file a complaint w/the State insurance Commissioner, You get a CHECK DAYS LATER?! For EVERYTHING?! The forms are downloadable online, can be completed & emailed/faxed back w/supporting docs & the gubment don't play when You've done everything right. CC'ing the AG's Office doesn't hurt either.
9-TAKE PICTURES...they're worth a thousand words (or more) EACH. We travel EVERYWHERE w/a digital camera(NOT a cellphone, a REAL CAMERA). Even taking pictures for OTHERS has proved to help them immeasureably later. No boat should Ever sink at the docks, although ours almost did once (clogged scuppers & 16+" of rain..in 3 days), it can & does happen, WHAT YOU DO the second notified & thereafter speaks volumes in front of a jury, mediator, & representing attorney. Remember (ask & Note) NAMES, Times called, verbal answers recieved & keep a "diary" Along w/the pictures. Having the facts, all of them, available & accurate.....
PriceLess.

Don't forget, we have a GOVERNOR here who came out and said To The People "STOP USING ALLSTATE, we've Banned them from writing futher policies in this state and they're RIPPING YOU OFF!" Direct quote, Charlie Crist, last year. Yes, Governor now, formerly AG, Allstate wanted to raise rates by 54% across the board, state said "sure"....IF YOU Demonstrate Your LOSSES & Prove to us the NEED to do so....gulp; legal wrangling back & forth, yet in the box, w/the lid on, they bailed. Conceded to a 16% increase instead. Didn't "go outta biz" either come to think of it, so I wonder who was right? Having a government, & Specifically Dept. of Ins. that WILL LOOK OUT FOR YOU is pretty cool. Charlie's made his mistakes as Gubna, this wasn't 1 of them. He had about a 90% popularity rating after throwing ALLSTATE under the bus. I'm guessing the other 10% were allstate employees, agents, & their ATTORNEYS here;

Picking a company that actually PAYS is far more important than a "cheap" premium. An online search will get You the horror stories before picking the "right 1" for You. Not saying "LM" is perfect, just fair & never heard a legit. horror story to date about them; not 1 (& no I have no affiliation w/'em either).
HTH