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seafox · 14-01-2007, 22:14

Na, it's easier to do it here.

14-01-2007, 22:19

Ah ha, now we know. Sean, let's get a few of us together and sail over to NZ and become rich sailors in paradise

cat man do · 14-01-2007, 22:26

Long post there Kai, that'd take me all day to puch that out.

I wish we all got taught how to budget and handle money at school instead of French or that math's stuff with triangles and cos and tan and all that other crazy stuff that we never get to use again.

I realise in my later years [now at 42] that I probably cant afford the quality of life that i'd like in OZ, but i'll sure as hell get it in Langkawi, the same as you could probably get it in Mexico or some of the Carribean areas. Poor in OZ, US = rich in other countries.

Some have it tough over here, but not as tough as US. At least we have handout's for those can't or in a few cases choose not to work. The Govt. is trying to crack down on that, and I would suspect that it may get phased out over time, but maybe not in my lifetime.

We also have free healthcare to anyone , even overseas visitors. As a recent operation virgin I can say in most cases it's fantastic.

Because of our Social Security system, a lot of the unemployed or homeless actualy travel into warmer areas during winter, some of them on yachts.

All our properties were in poor socio economic areas, and we went against everyones advice and leveraged and bought up big and they are all now worth double to 3 times the purchase and in areas where there is less than 1% vacancy rates bringing in premium rent's.

This was not luck, it was reading about 100 different book's and doing heap's of research all which is available free at the library.

If you want it bad enough In US and OZ I reckon anyone can get ahead.

I still believe that if you want to get out of the hole, first you have to stop digging, and you also need to have that winner mindset.

I also believe that if a person think's they are $hit, guess what they attract.

Dave

14-01-2007, 22:52

Dave, I do not disagree, but I am not talking about those of us with the drive and the smarts to find and leverage those opportunities. I am talking about the average, highschool educated, middle class person. These are the people who are willing to work for the dream, but have no idea where to start. They are told through ads, and television that if they have a nice care, and live in the right places, and spend their hard earned cash on body sprays, and overnight education, they will be part of the in crowd. I suspect that most people on this forum have the ability to get from A to B ona boat. And, as such, have the enginuity to find those opportunities. People who can have a comfortable life with oil lamps, garden grown food, and wood heat, are not the ones I am talking about. Those people, too, would be able to recognize the opportunities. It is the inner city kids. The ones who struggle to graduate highschool on the promise of a future, only to find out that when they graduate, and move out on their own, they have to have room mates. They have to somehow come up with $20000 or $30000 to even think of buying a home. A daunting figure when you make $8 an hour.
At 17, I was on my own. I was making $4 an hour, and had squat. The idea of buying a home was not even within the realm of reality. I relocated to a place where housing could be purchased for under $50000. I doubled my income. I sacrificed, and struggled, and by 19, I owned a townhouse, and some scrub land in the boondocks. I won't get into my demise, but it had to do with allot of personal crap. At 22, I started over. Bought a house in Ca. doubled my income again. kept moving forward. The reason this worked for me? Simple. I didn't know I couldn't do it. Since 1984, I have owned 6 homes and properties. I have never put one dime down on any of them. Can anyone do that? Sure! If they know the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, it is getting harder. My last home cost me more than any of the rest, and is further away from where I work than any of the rest (100 miles).
Does my son have the same opportunity? By his own limitations, no. He refuses to live in the sticks. His chance of affording a home in the city where he lives, at 21 years old is non existant. His credit is OK, but his income at 21 will not get him into a $350000 home. His income will not even cover the rent on an apartment. He will not have the things I had at his age. In contrast, I was making $8 an hour, and homes were $50000. My sone is making $15 an hour doing similar work, and homes are $350000. Coincidentally, homes in the area I moved to when I was 19 are at that same level, $350000. At 42 years old, (Yea, me too) re-entering the housing market was a real struggle. We still live aboard the boat, but wanted the security (OK my wife wanted dirt

), of owning a home. If I were to sell that home now, and try to re-enter the market in 7 or 8 years after we go cruising, I really doubt I will be able to do it regardless of how effective my skills of negotiation are.

mudnut · 15-01-2007, 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

Interesting thread,

On this Australian forum

Buying in the US - Somersoft Property Investment Forums

there is a fair bit of talk of investment property in the US with prices below $50,000 Aud, so about $40,000 US.

I realize they are fairly ordinary and need some work, but they are cheap.

Not knowing the US that well I would be interested to know what your thought's would be on these areas.

Could it be lack of motivation and a percieved concept of lack of worth on some peoples part ,stopping some people from getting ahead.?

Even in Australia there are plenty of people bleating that first homes are to expensive, yet they will only look at Mansion's, not shitter's to get them started.

Yet they all have the latest and greatest brand name everything and flash shiny car's pumping out Doof Doof music, and probably can't cook.

Our house is falling down around our ears, we have a 25 year old car, have never had a resort holiday, no plasma TV,all my clothes have epoxy on them, my only pair of shoes are "Deck Shoe's" with epoxy on them, I think you get the picture.

Now not trying to blow our own trumpet, though we are pretty chuffed,

We own our own home, and have control over 6 Investment properties , am in the process of building a 5 bedroom spec home for resale, and today will hopfully buy another house for demolition and build 2 new ones on the site.

All this while building a 50 foot cat, on my partner's one income of $60,000 AUD / $47,500 US.

I haven't had a real paying job in 15 year's and we are both under 43.

It's called "Delayed Gratification" and "Hard Work"

Dave

Dave,SHUSH on you,next thing ya know they will all wont to come over here.

I was just trying to find out why they couldn't do the same over ,ERR,their way.mudnut.

mudnut · 15-01-2007, 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafox

Some "Brinyites" paid less than US$100,000 for their trailers and will walk away from the deal, scheduled to close in March 2009, with more than US$1 million.

"The vote clearly reflects the overwhelming desire of the shareholders to sell Briny Breezes," Mary Kimber, president of Briny Breezes, Inc, said in a written statement.

Seventeen percent of the owners voted against the sale. Some said they didn't want to lose the unique lifestyle of the oceanfront park, which boasts clubs devoted to square dancing, woodworking and shuffleboard.

They probably even get to keep the caravans too. Must be real easy in the US of A. You guys need to get with the flow!!!!

Come on seafox,we got the same **** down our way,Oh except for the square dancing,woodwork and shuffle board.Mudnut.

**Alan Wheeler** · 15-01-2007, 10:35

Guy's, we are ALL missing the entire point. We ARE rich. We own..errrr...we have a boat. We can anchor in a lovely secluded spot somewhere and take in "sunsets over the yard arm". Now how rich is that.
Wealth, accumulation of assets and accumulation of things that supposedly make life more comfortable all simply pale in comparison to a life free of the "system" we have to live in, in the real world existance some of us have. And the ones that have cut free of that "system" are truely Wealthy.
Oh I wish I could write that above using the word power at Gords command.

**knottybuoyz** · 15-01-2007, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafox

Some "Brinyites" paid less than US$100,000 for their trailers and will walk away from the deal, scheduled to close in March 2009, with more than US$1 million.

Saw an interview on the tube the other day with one of the long time residents (retired Canadian teacher from Port Colborne ON). Bought his slice of paradise in the trailer park for $22K Cdn in 1978. He wasn't happy about loosing his winter home but the $1.1M US will soften the blow somewhat.

hellosailor · 15-01-2007, 11:48

KN, I agree with you. If the parents are broken (so to speak) it then falls on society to fix the next generation of sociey members (the kids) and the schools are one place to do that. Of course, that's chicken-and-the-egg since the schools often aren't working either and the broken parents are the smae ones who will say "no" to more of anything in the schools since it raises their taxes or requires some other effort.
Hmmm...Talk Show Hosts as societal education. Odd planet.

I think that was one of the arguments against democracy by the monarchists, that the hoi-polli could never be competent to govern or rule themselves, wasn't it?

Maybe if we can convince the chinese of the value of "social promotion" and shorter school days with looser standards, we can stop them in their tracks.<G>

15-01-2007, 22:17

Think it might be on purpose?
Amazon.com: The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America: A Chronological Paper Trail: Books: Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt,Charlotte Iserbyt-Thomson
Really, I do not have the solution to all of this. I feel bad knowing that my kids will probably not have the opportunities I had. Not because they do not exist, but because, social trends encourage them not to take advantage of them. I will probably end up a por old boat bum waiting for my next Social Security check to get me to the next marina, but I have always put a much higher value on time than money. I have to agree with Wheels, we have a wealth that can not be purchased. It must be earned. Unfortunately, when we are taken advantage of while trying to live within our means, it gets harder and harder to enjoy that wealth.

cat man do · 15-01-2007, 22:55

[quote=Kai Nui]Dave, I do not disagree, but I am not talking about those of us with the drive and the smarts to find and leverage those opportunities. I am talking about the average, highschool educated, middle class person. These are the people who are willing to work for the dream, but have no idea where to start.

It is the inner city kids. The ones who struggle to graduate highschool on the promise of a future, only to find out that when they graduate, and move out on their own, they have to have room mates. They have to somehow come up with $20000 or $30000 to even think of buying a home. A daunting figure when you make $8 an hour.

This was me in 1982, Failed at school, and through determination and door knocking got an aprenticeship getting $2.4950/hour.

At 17, I was on my own. I was making $4 an hour, and had squat. The idea of buying a home was not even within the realm of reality. I relocated to a place where housing could be purchased for under $50000. I doubled my income. I sacrificed, and struggled, and by 19, I owned a townhouse, and some scrub land in the boondocks. I won't get into my demise, but it had to do with allot of personal crap. At 22, I started over. Bought a house in Ca. doubled my income again. kept moving forward.

Well done, I didn't learn this until I was 38

The reason this worked for me? Simple. I didn't know I couldn't do it.
Since 1984, I have owned 6 homes and properties. I have never put one dime down on any of them. Can anyone do that? Sure! If they know the opportunity is there. Unfortunately, it is getting harder. My last home cost me more than any of the rest, and is further away from where I work than any of the rest (100 miles).

I will agree that it is tough, Kai, we made a choice not to have children so we could do what we do, and all of our investment property is 800 klms from where we live.

Does my son have the same opportunity? By his own limitations, no. He refuses to live in the sticks. His chance of affording a home in the city where he lives, at 21 years old is non existant. His credit is OK, but his income at 21 will not get him into a $350000 home. His income will not even cover the rent on an apartment. He will not have the things I had at his age. In contrast, I was making $8 an hour, and homes were $50000. My sone is making $15 an hour doing similar work, and homes are $350000. Coincidentally, homes in the area I moved to when I was 19 are at that same level, $350000. At 42 years old, (Yea, me too) re-entering the housing market was a real struggle. We still live aboard the boat, but wanted the security (OK my wife wanted dirt

), of owning a home. If I were to sell that home now, and try to re-enter the market in 7 or 8 years after we go cruising, I really doubt I will be able to do it regardless of how effective my skills of negotiation are.

We couldn't afford to buy them where we live, but we could get 3 for the price of 1 where we live.

Now they have outstripped the house prices where we live.

This was not luck, this was a need to get ahead and research all of which is available free to anyone, and thinking outside the square.

After selling our first unit and losing money through commissions, stamp duty etc, the one thing we have learned is not to sell.

Don't get me wrong Kai, it's not an easy road to travel, and you are right, the deal's are increasingly difficult, but they can be found, and they are there if you want to make sacrifices, like you, living in the stick's and earning more money, so as to get the thing's you have today.

Maybe the young'uns of today need to re asess what it is they really desire. Shiny toy's now, or something for later.

It is tough to have both.

Dave

15-01-2007, 23:04

I agree completely. Not making any excuses for my kid's lack of inspiration, but the good ol US, ain't the land of opportunity it used to be. That was my original point. Oz may be different. It is certainly on my list of wish I were there's. Now, about that grinder...

ssullivan · 16-01-2007, 07:19

Good read. Thanks guys, for keeping this to a civil and productive off topic discussion. I have to say, I couldn't agree more with what Kai Nui says. His experience is the same as the experience I see in the Northeast, and to a lesser extent the Southeast.

FYI: Those trailerpark millionaires bought in the 70's and 80's, before I was in high school. My generation didn't have the opportunity to profit for your huge real estate empires. We only had the opportunity to not afford our first houses due to the skyrocketing costs. Oh, and I should mention I have worked 60+ hours a week my entire life. More when I ran my own company. It's not a question of drive or laziness. I'm also not under-educated. I wasn't the kid many of you see that drops out and goes skiing or anything. As I said in another post, what did a Chevy cost in the 70's as a percentage of your paycheck (or the average paycheck)? Now what does one cost as it would relate to the average paycheck? How about a house in the same scenario? What percetage of a paycheck was a house in the 70's? And now?

That's some of what Kai Nui is talking about. Older folks had a free boost to their early lives we didn't get. They also had pensions, health care, bonuses, raises... they phased those out when I entered the work force, while at the same time increasing the cost of the basics - housing, transportation, clothing, etc...

Think about it.

That's why a lot of younger folks can't get ahead despite working 60+ hours a week and being highly educated.

Also, Wheels hits it right on. While I have talked about all this stuff (not liking captialism, and the fact that my generation had a financial noose around its neck from day one), I could give a rat's *ss about it. I was dealt a bad hand, but I can still make a happy life. I have a fantastic beautiful wife, I have nature, I have sunsets and I have the water. These are riches no money can buy. They are also what life is all about.

My main point was that now that I'm in port trying to pay for this boat (which some mentioned they got for free due to the same real estate appreciation the kept me from owning a house due to my age), I am more frustrated with capitalism than ever. Capitalism dealt some bad hands my way, and keeps on doing so, even in little ways, like givng me a "cheap" $60 meat grinder from china that wasn't marked as being from China.

Hey, wasn't there a thread about just sailing off with a mortgaged boat? What are those steps again?? ha ha

Can't wait to get the heck out of they system again because it sucks so bad. The real rewards are the ones money can't buy, but while I'm stuck in port and stuck in the "system", I sure think it stinks. It's based on greed.