Most users ever online was 6,588, 27-12-2019 at 09:52.

[sv_pelagia]

99% of my use of CF is via the Android App.

Unfortunately, it does not indicate member "rating" nor does have a way to "thank" (or [emoji106]) a member's post. (It does have a way to "report" a post, however.)

Be nice if this could be added.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by grantmc

One poster I fondly miss is Steadman Urlich (Steady). He used to often start very interesting threads with a well researched offerings ie. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...rs-176284.html
Anyone know what happened to Steady, the forum is a little less because of his absence?

The other little oddity about this forum is that there are so many lurkers. As I write this there are 172 members online and 3,347 guests. There's such a reluctance to post. Is there a way to encourage people to be more motivated to post?

Steady responded to me in a thread a while back. Not sure where he is; I always presumed he was out sailing.

Check his most recent post:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ot-249901.html

[MicHughV]

Let's face it...without the mods here, the CF would be bedlam, bless 'em I say !!

[boatman61]

No problem with the Mod's.. quite like em actually..

[Don C L]

Speaking for myself as a mod, the one negative here for me is that I'd really like to actually meet all you folks and share some laughs and a beer in a pub somewhere but it doesn't seem too likely!

Spending my formative years in Santa Barbara harbor in California I was lucky to meet many folks who were cruisers, professional skippers and racers who called Santa Barbara their home port. Walking the docks it was easy to make friends with unassuming folks who had sailed all over the place. Victor Shane was there with his tiny Piver, there was a whole family of boys who were either skippers or crew and one who regularly crewed in the America's cup and there were professional skippers, sailmakers and riggers who came and went. There was a tiny chandlery where the locals shopped and many interesting folk came through those doors. And there were many very colorful characters, with strongly held beliefs and opinions that they didn't mind sharing! We seemed to be able to disagree vociferously over a beer at Joe's, but still remain friends, or at least friendly. That little harbor was a community and still is. I see CF as a reflection of that, and that is a good thing, within reason.

I hope we are not seeing any decline here on CF as a reflection of a lack of interest in sailing in general. I don't want to wax all nostalgic too much here but I hope there is still enthusiasm for taking a small boat out on the sea for adventure.

One reason I am an unapologetic cheerleader for the old school boats is that I see them as fun, seaworthy and affordable options, not just for us older folks, but for the kids coming up who crave adventure as much as any kids in the past.

So if you know any kids, get them in a boat, shove them off and then have them log in here!

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by grantmc

[...] I don't want to off topic about borders.
I am just pointing out there's a significant American bias in many CF posts.
[...]
Whether my frustration is typical I don't know.

I'm in the USA and am also frustrated with what you describe as "a significant American bias." I see it as a lack of international perspective, and it is a significant factor in U.S. media coverage and politics (both sides) as well as on CF.

One poster I fondly miss is Steadman Urlich (Steady). He used to often start very interesting threads with a well researched offerings ie. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...rs-176284.html
Anyone know what happened to Steady, the forum is a little less because of his absence?

I miss him also and almost mentioned him in a post upthread. In one of his last posts he wrote that he is devoting more time to his "art stuff." If I recall correctly, he never owned a boat but frequently served as crew on others' boats.

The other little oddity about this forum is that there are so many lurkers. As I write this there are 172 members online and 3,347 guests. There's such a reluctance to post. Is there a way to encourage people to be more motivated to post?

I believe that's fairly typical of forums though 10:1 is perhaps more common. I would guess that there are many people who come here who are curious about boats and cruising but whose dreams ultimately lead them elsewhere.

[Mike OReilly]

This forum is dominated by American perspectives, and mostly an east-coast one at that. But that's simply because this is where most of the active members reside.

As a Canadian, I do my best to present an alternative perspective. But I don't fault my American friends from presenting theirs. I do, however, encourage all of us to acknowledge that this is an international forum. I've no issue at all with asking for regionally specific advice. Just note that the laws and customs of one area may not be the same in your neighbourhood, as they are everywhere.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by grantmc

One aspect that I notice occasionally is that there some posters who are very USA centric...

...The other little oddity about this forum is that there are so many lurkers. As I write this there are 172 members online and 3,347 guests.

One of the reasons I come here is the international perspective. It is comical sometimes to see the posts which just assume everyone is in the same country as the poster. And yes, Americans tend to do that more than most. Just chuckle and move on to the next thread.

As for lurkers, remember that a large number of the not-logged-on sessions are search engine bots and scammer bots, as well as folks who just did a search and ended up here without knowing. I'm not sure how long before a session times out and/or is no longer shown in the statistics, but that could be a factor, too. I'd expect a high lurker-to-poster ratio.

Originally Posted by Don C L

One reason I am an unapologetic cheerleader for the old school boats is that I see them as fun, seaworthy and affordable options, not just for us older folks, but for the kids coming up who crave adventure as much as any kids in the past.

That's true, but in many places I think we're at the point where a young person with a family and a job just can't afford cruising, even just on weekends. Our marina used to have lots of sturdy cruising boats, and even when they weren't out cruising, people spent weekends aboard and socialized. Now it's mostly small, day-use fishing boats or overpriced show boats which rarely get used. The marina is deserted nights and weekends.

[carstenb]

The American (US) centricity is partly due to the fact that this is an English language forum. We mods do sometimes have to delete posts that are in a foreign language.
There are many non-americans who would like to post but don't simply because the language issue defeats them (note that I am from Denmark).

Many of these potential members post on forums that are in their native language (I occasionally post on the Danish Ocean Cruisers site, for example).

Some of our most active posters go away for a while and then come back. For those that have been here for a long time, many of the threads are repetitive and it is easy to lose interest.

Believe it or not, some of us are also out sailing and have little to no internet for many months, even years.

Are younger people losing interest in sailing? Statistics say that boat sails are at an all time high and used boats are commanding very high prices, so something positive is happening, although how many of the new boat owners will actually sail is a different matter.

[Shrew]

While it looks like this thread has taken a bit of a left-turn from the original topic, I'll ashamedly continue the hi-jack.

Many people, in general (unfortunately), are egocentric. I see it all the time in posts in all kinds of forums.

1) Posting the name of your vessel in casual conversation as if its a person (As if we know the name of your vessel. What or who the F### is "Penelope"? Vessel, mother, daughter, girlfriend, neighbor, dog?)).

2) Posting the name of your significant other (As if we know the name of your significant other. Who the F### is 'Jeanette'?? Vessel, mother, daughter, girlfriend, neighbor, dog?).

3) Posting the name of your town or body of water (as if we know where "Joebagoduntz Bay" is located. "Portsmouth"? Well that narrows it down. Only about 100 of those on a variety of continents).

4) Assuming that a municipal, state, or federal laws apply to everyone. (Particularly in regards to registration, titling and taxes).

As to the original topic, the marina analogy is perfect. If anyone has stayed at a marina for more than 10 years, you definitely know that there is a huge turnover in that time. Some folks age out. Some can't afford it. some move to different marina's. some find they don't like it as much as they thought. Some find the ratio of cost to enjoy or cost to time is not worth it. Many families end up having time issues as their kids get older and participate in extracurricular activities.

Whatever the reason, people's interests and financial situations change. We were just looking at pictures the other day. A large 10-12 boat raft on Independence Day (US) holiday. Out of those 10-12 boats, 15 years later, only 2 of us still own boats.

The same happens to activity specific forums.

[Shrew]

Also it's worth noting:

Most users ever online was 6,588, 27-12-2019 at 11:52

In 2019, December 27th was a Friday. Christmas Eve was Tue. and Christmas was Wed. and Boxing Day was Thursday. This means that the majority of the world would have been open and back to work for at least one day. By 11:52am, I'm guess the world was basically 'mailing it in' and more interested in burning the day than actually working.

I suspect the timing of the holidays and the time date of the historic spike has far more to do with that. In other words, the high water mark is artificially high, rather than a bar to be compared too with all future activity.

[MicHughV]

I built my first boat.
As a youngster, I had little choice, as I had no money, but I became a dumpster diver of note and a master scrounger.

Started in 1978. At this time, building your own boat was quite the thing to do. Around this time, I got to know at least a dozen people building their own boat in my neck of the woods.
Robin Lee Graham of " Dove" fame was my guiding light.

Finances (or lack thereof) were likely the reason most people took on such a task. I built mine from steel, but fiberglass, wood, ferro-cement, etc, were all in the mix as were designs.

You simply don't see that today. I launched my boat in 1980. Since that time, building your own boat has fizzled out. I have not come across but a random few, that still do this.

I left to go cruising with only the most rudimentary of gear and handful of dollars and never thought anything about it. These days, most "sailor's" won't leave the dock without 1,000's of $$ of navigational gear, solar panels, a/c, etc, etc,

New boat builds tout twin helm stations, furling everything, etc, etc. Sure, fancy and modern, no doubt, but cost prohibitive for all but deep pockets.

It's become a "business" of late. Marina dockage rates are absurd these days. Add in boat payments, insurance and maintenance, and only the very rich can afford it. Ironically, most of these boats are dock queens and never go anywhere.

Where will it all end ?? No idea.

Most marina's prohibit "liveaboards" or have limited "liveaboard" capacity. As the above poster stated, local marina's are ghost towns.

Many favorite anchorages now sport " mooring balls". There is a perception that yachtsmen are rich and therefore need to be exploited at every curve.

Environmental issues is another thing. Holding tanks are now mandatory, etc, etc.

Skyhigh fuel costs, both gas and diesel is another thing.

All in all, yes, I can see a young person's limited interest in this game

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I built my first boat.
As a youngster, I had little choice, as I had no money, but I became a dumpster diver of note and a master scrounger.

Started in 1978. At this time, building your own boat was quite the thing to do. Around this time, I got to know at least a dozen people building their own boat in my neck of the woods.
Robin Lee Graham of " Dove" fame was my guiding light.

Finances (or lack thereof) were likely the reason most people took on such a task. I built mine from steel, but fiberglass, wood, ferro-cement, etc, were all in the mix as were designs.

You simply don't see that today. I launched my boat in 1980. Since that time, building your own boat has fizzled out. I have not come across but a random few, that still do this.

I left to go cruising with only the most rudimentary of gear and handful of dollars and never thought anything about it. These days, most "sailor's" won't leave the dock without 1,000's of $$ of navigational gear, solar panels, a/c, etc, etc,

New boat builds tout twin helm stations, furling everything, etc, etc. Sure, fancy and modern, no doubt, but cost prohibitive for all but deep pockets.

It's become a "business" of late. Marina dockage rates are absurd these days. Add in boat payments, insurance and maintenance, and only the very rich can afford it. Ironically, most of these boats are dock queens and never go anywhere.

Where will it all end ?? No idea.

Most marina's prohibit "liveaboards" or have limited "liveaboard" capacity. As the above poster stated, local marina's are ghost towns.

Many favorite anchorages now sport " mooring balls". There is a perception that yachtsmen are rich and therefore need to be exploited at every curve.

Environmental issues is another thing. Holding tanks are now mandatory, etc, etc.

Skyhigh fuel costs, both gas and diesel is another thing.

All in all, yes, I can see a young person's limited interest in this game

I agree with a lot of your points but disagree with some.

While all the modern advances (read: expensive things) can make boating seem cost prohibitive, they don't. Going sailing is cheaper than ever. You can literally go to a marina somewhere, have a small yacht GIVEN to you. Strip the interior. Buy a cheap outboard and bracket and slap it on. Find super cheap or free sails. Buy a small stove and go. Your phone will serve as your GPS. There are still wild places in this world where you can live free. They just aren't talked about as much.

I cruised down to central America a few years back and many many of my cruising friends were on boats they'd acquired for less than 5k. And yet here they were "doing it".

Just because there are more options doesn't mean that it is not possible. It doesn't even mean it is harder. It just means it might happen in a way that you're not used to.

Is it possible to go little, go now and live in NY harbor? No. Is it possible if you change your perspective about what is worthwhile and where you wish to live? Yes.

I think the Internet and forums blow a lot of things out of proportion and also skim over some very important things with regularity. In some ways, the only way to really know what is going on "out there" is to go "out there".

I used to post a lot under a different profile. It was a different time in my life. Then I scaled back. I was tired. I found out the "real world" was very different then what I'd come to believe via the forums. Some things that sounded outlandish were true.

Anyway, I'm just musing.


-------------------------------------

NOW... In my "day job", I work in the IT industry with extensive background in building very large scale web applications. I've managed many programmers and operations people. I have extensive experience working on the product side of things. I can speak with some authority on statistics when it comes to websites.

The first thing I question is the metric this thread is based on. "Most users online"? What does that even mean? How is it calculated? It could include bots, crawlers, or maybe it tries to do some filtering to give a more meaningful result. Would it double count a single user signed on between a web browser on a PC and also their mobile at once? Should it?

Max number is also relatively meaningless. Running averages of engagement are more meaningful generally speaking as well as NPS and engagement. This is a complicated topic that there are entire careers built around.

I would caution anyone on the "outside" of the data to not draw conclusions based on single metrics exposed without context. I think a much more meaningful way to look at this from the "outside" is to ask... Is CF, SN, or SA more "busy"? Do you see the same activity across those sites. Do you enjoy those sites?

People come and people go. The culture of CF is very different then the other sites, and a lot of this comes from the moderators. For better or worse. People will find the crowds they like to mingle in. I like CF because it is busy. I dislike the level of moderation on CF, that is my personal opinion.

And a final point. 6kish users (even if they are all legit humans looking at a screen) is considered very small by todays viral standards. Youtube, tiktok, twitch, etc.... They garner many many thousands of views at a time. It is a different format. Forums as a whole are always going to be smaller. Take that into account when trying to draw comparisons.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Also it's worth noting:

Most users ever online was 6,588, 27-12-2019 at 11:52

In 2019, December 27th was a Friday. Christmas Eve was Tue. and Christmas was Wed. and Boxing Day was Thursday...

And, nothing particularly noteworthy happened, in December of 2019, that would have sparked heightened interest amongst Cruisers.

December 2019 Current Events:
World News [including *]➥ https://www.infoplease.com/december-...nts-world-news
US News [lots of shootings] ➥ https://www.infoplease.com/december-...events-us-news

* A boat carrying refugees capsized near Nouadhibou, off the coast of Mauritania, in one of the deadliest maritime disasters this year, leaving 58 people dead and many more who tried to swim to shore in need of treatment. The boat had departed The Gambia on 27 November 2019. It was heading towards the Canary Islands when it approached the Mauritanian coast to get fuel and food. The boat had been carrying between 150–180 people when it capsized, most of them aged between 20 and 30.
➥ https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uritania-coast

[Island Time O25]

(With apologies to our antipod members) It must be a Covid spiked winter to gather 6 pages devoted to "is CF on the skids and why or why not?" discussion.

On the question of over/under moderation on CF I am basically on the fence. Having been on various forums since the 90s (when they were called bulletin boards) I have seen both good and bad consequences of both. Overmoderation works best when there are enough nucleus members to afford kicking the perceived riffraff out. Undermoderation works best on smaller forums where everyone knows each other, even if virtually and most come from a common background, give or take.

Here on CF I think the mods have been maintaining a semblance of balance, although I do personally believe that to totally exclude politics is unreasonable as they are intertwined with actual policies which affect boaters/cruisers in a myriad of ways. As do medical issues, child rearing issues, etc. If CF ever becomes too strict and too technical this will be to its and its users detriment as one cannot compartmenalize cruising/boating into narrow straitjacket of just electronics, propulsion, head repair and other strictly tech or nav issues.

Since cruising/boating/boat ownership is a way of life for many (most?) of us, and not just a narrow hobby, so the forum does best when it reflects that way of life, warts (a/k/a politics, religion and other 3rd rail subjects) and all.

Happy New Year everyone! And may 2022 bring us out of this C-19 gloom and doom!