PayPal Sailors

[jkd]

Originally Posted by Ahnlaashock

Why they would not be welcomed here would be a complete mystery to me.

Originally Posted by TaoJones

There were two big strikes against them, I think, in the eyes of many members, Ahnlaashock. First, they were from a different generation than most of the cruisers and wannabe cruisers on this Forum, and second, they had the capital to indulge their sailing fantasy.

For many old-time sailors who had to work a lifetime in an unrewarding career (both financially and psychically) to finally afford a cruising vessel of any kind, and who learned sailing over a lifetime of gradually moving up in boat-size and sophistication, seeing a pair of 28 year-olds decide over beers that they would get a boat and sail it around the world - never mind that they didn't know how to sail - and just write a $157,000 check for the boat they found on their first day of looking . . . well, it can leave a bad taste in the mouth, can't it? If you read through the first part of the Bumfuzzle logs, from the very beginning through about the time they discovered the delamination issues while the vessel was hauled-out in Panama, you get a very clear understanding for what it's like to be young, naive, financially-secure and on permanent vacation in the Bahamas.

It's hard not to feel more than a little bit wistful for one's own youth when reading those early logs, and, no doubt, more than a little bit resentful, too. After all, most of us didn't get to do that sort of thing at that age.

Pat's self-deprecating style is just the last straw for some, though I personally find it enjoyable. He doesn't pretend that he's "all that," and he's comfortable in his own skin, content to pursue whatever he finds fulfilling and secure in the committed relationship he has with the woman he's been in love with since early high school. He's intelligent, and quickly learned the commodities trading game that he parlayed into the means to make their lifestyle possible, but at heart, he and Ali are really no different than most other cruisers - disillusioned hippies with an intense desire to live life on their own terms.

TaoJones

I have started a new thread with this eloquent posting by TaoJones so as not to drift from the original.
As a member of the generation he describes, I find it a little disingenuous. I care not whether an individual has earned their way through hard backing braking work, intelligence and fortitude or the 'lucky sperm'. When an individual or individuals involve themselves in a concerted effort to gain monetary advantage through effort from verbal or written efforts to sell themselves or an idea based on air (or the next best thing to it), I take offence.
I find it in extremely bad taste to 'pan-handle from the back of a Roll-Royce'. Whether you call it selling the 'great American novel' one page at a time or simply groveling for cash, do the deed and then write about it.
I trust that all these modern day Internet panhandlers pay taxes to their respective countries, of course.
When did instant gratification replace effort to receive reward?
I guess we can probably trace some of this to the TV preachers that wear the gold Rolex and flashy diamond rings and implore that they know how to spend your money better than you.
Maybe we have become such fractured societies that no longer communicate in person we rely on living vicariously through others?
All I know is, it is truly shameless to sit on a vessel worth tens of thousands of dollars and hold your hand out to feed yourself or to save your cash and let others feed you. Would these people have no compunction to showing up at a soup kitchen for free food knowing the homeless family behind them will go hungry because they took their spot? Is it we only care about or own special needs and there are so many suckers out there that a few dollars here and there won't matter?
I appreciate that those with expendable income can spend their money any way they want, be it to the Red Cross, philanthropy to a museum or whatever, but please think about what you are supporting.

I would like to know what others think on this. Am I just a dinosaur with old fashion tastes and out of the loop with new communications structures?

What do you think of "Pay Pal Sailors"?
John

[GordMay]

I don’t think that this is a suitable topic for discussion on the CF, nor that it will lead to anything but anger, discord, and hurt.

[marc2012]

Tool long for me.marc

[jkd]

You may be right Gord, but it is a current sailing topic with the events of the last month. (Stowe, Simpson et al).
I hope we can keep it civilized and just let me know if this is the wave of the future or a passing fad? Are we all missing the new millenium in communication?

John

[Doodles]

It's your choice to contribute or not, so I don't see what the problem is. Those that chose to contribute are getting something out of it; otherwise, they would not.

I don't agree with the soup kitchen analogy. They are not taking away from a charitable organization but from individuals that "chose" to freely contribute. Their business, not mine.

[Drew13440]

OK, I'll put in two cents and get clobbered for it. "Cruising" without having earned the means to see it through is incredibly selfish. It may even be selfish for those who have earned the trip. Going out there without means of support and expecting others to fill the larder out of kindness is beyond the pale.

I remember once being asked for a hand out, on 42nd Street, in New York, from a kid with absolutely perfect and very expensive teeth, not to mention wearing a very expensive "Pattagucci" fleece. I told him to call his dad if he needed "money for food" and leave me the hell alone. Enough said.

[jkd]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I don't agree with the soup kitchen analogy.

I understand, it was purely hyperbole to facilitate the discussion, however there are only X amount of dollars, yen, pounds etc floating around for distribution to "causes".
My question in another manner is... are we seeing a resurgence of the 70's sailor that washes ashore on some island and expects the 'natives' to help him? With the 'natives' being the internet community?

John

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by jkd

I understand, it was purely hyperbole to facilitate the discussion, however there are only X amount of dollars, yen, pounds etc floating around for distribution to "causes".
My question in another manner is... are we seeing a resurgence of the 70's sailor that washes ashore on some island and expects the 'natives' to help him? With the 'natives' being the internet community?

John

Well, the internet certainly makes it easy to ask a large and anonymous population for donations, but I still say its a matter of individual choice or freewill. You can't control what others do with their money, so why worry about it.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by jkd

I would like to know what others think on this. Am I just a dinosaur with old fashion tastes and out of the loop with new communications structures?

Yes.

I think you discount too much the effort and skill that went into exploiting their "product".......notwithstanding they probably lucked into having a "product", but they required wit to recognise the opportunity and making money was not a given. Try it yourself

Should they make money from providing entertainment to others? I don't see why not. I hear the media is quite a big industry...........

It's just a question of how the dollar is collected - in the old days you collected the dollar after the event (from a magazine article or book) but that was simply because their were no more immediate options. With the internet their is the opportunity to sell during an event - and indeed after has little value.

Was it to everyone's tastes? no. but it wasn't meant to be - and that was of course part of the clever sell

[RTB]

Hey, I donated to Ronnie. Honestly, I think he needed it at that time so I helped. Entertainment, yes, he does provide that. I don't think he has gotten rich from the Pay Pal thing though.

I'd have to get pretty involved in what I was reading before I'd donate.

[Randyonr3]

It seems that many believe there is a "right of passage" to become a cruiser..
Had to laugh a while back, and I may have posted it on the forum.
While putting our boat back in the water at Svendson's boat yard in Alameda, Ca.,
I looked off the dock area down to a boat to be pulled from the water. A very clean Catalina 36, and I wouldnt have thought it was over a couple years old...
The funny was the cardboard sign in the cockpit..
(HUNGRY - PLEASE HELP)
Whoever owned the boat was supporting his lifestyle, and it didnt seem to bad by panhandling....
Svendsons is an upper end boat yard and isnt a discount place to work on your boat.. He must have been doing alright.....

[SkiprJohn]

Strange thread,
Begging, no matter what for, is shameful in my opinion. Asking for assistance when you are able to work is shameful in my opinion.
If you can live with yourself while doing these things then you are the lowest of the low in my opinion.
Many folks, especially politicians, have expressed to me that my opinion doesn't count for much.
kind regards,

[Chief Engineer]

I must be missing something.....what are ye talking aboot?

[maxingout]

I don't think that putting a paypal button on your website means that you are going to get anyone to send you money. The only reason that anyone would send you a donation is if they value what you are doing and they treat it as a subscription of sorts for the entertainment/advice recieved on the site.

We live in a world in which people are attemting to get money in every way possible. The only people who get paid are those who create value that other people would like to pay for. If you don't create value, you usually get zero, zip, nada.

I know of a person who has an awesome 4 wheel driving website with tons of useful information for people who offroad and who want to learn how to fix their vehicles. The information is pure gold. He has a paypal donation button, and in the past five years, he has not even gotten ten dollars in donations. His website is a work of love.

About the only thing you get from websites is people who write letters to you telling you how much they enjoy visiting your site.

I don't have any trouble with people putting paypal buttons on their sites. For 99% of those site owners, that button is only a trip to fantasyland. If any significant donations came in, you would have to pick them up off the floor and recussitate them from a state of shock.

If anyone is making money on paypal buttons asking for donations, I would like to find out how much money they are making. Probably very little.

I have over 100 websites without any google ads and no donation buttons. Even though I get 30,000 pages downloaded a week on my websites, the amount of revenue generated by google ads and a donation button would be so small that it would not be worth the aggravation to me, or to the people who visit my sites.

Go out and build a website, and put a donation button on the site. You won't pay for the cost of running a website even if you do all the work yourself like I do.

[Chief Engineer]

You have 100 websites.......I can barely keep up with two