Science & Technology News

[GordMay]

Electric cars need green batteries

On the road to a world dominated by electric vehicles, materials scientists are focusing on the metals that are integral to the lithium-ion batteries that power them. Despite the extreme environmental and social costs of producing materials such as cobalt, it is still less expensive, in most instances, to mine metals than to recycle them. Creating batteries that are easier to take apart, new techniques to separate the materials inside, and economies of scale will all play a part in making recycling more widespread, say experts. The case of old-fashioned lead-acid batteries shows that there is hope: over 98% of them are already recycled.

“Electric cars and batteries: how will the world produce enough?” ~ by Davide Castelvecchi
Reducing the use of scarce metals — and recycling them — will be key to the world’s transition to electric vehicles.
➥ https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02222-1

[jimbunyard]

Looked into this a couple of months ago, feeling sure that the powers-that-be had, realizing the error of their ways with ICE engines, specified cradle-to-grave manufacturing requirements and protocols.

As far as I could tell, there is no burden whatsoever placed on the manufacturers for the disposal of their batteries, be it recycling or whatever.

Even my professedly anti-green friends (I live in the south, where tolerance of such radical ideas is looked at like a disease) didn't believe me.


And yet governments are making contracts with thieves like Musk, using public funds robbed from apparently willing people to pay for things the government should be doing at lower cost without middlemen. Think real US success stories like the USGS or the SSA. The Grand Coulee Dam project would also be an example (turned in under budget and 14 months ahead of schedule, but it was built by private contractors using federal funds...but that's another story).


Just another story of capitalism creating more problems without being held responsible for their downstream negative externalities.

There is one 'hope' for the continued existance of humans at a kind of life-as-we-know-it level.

And that is the willing global adoption of social changes culminating in the self-abolition of the 'ownership mentality'.

Guess who the primary opponents of that idea are?...

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

... As far as I could tell, there is no burden whatsoever placed on the manufacturers for the disposal of their batteries, be it recycling or whatever....

There certainly are, in many jurisdictions.
Companies that sell, market, or import batteries or select products containing a battery may have legal obligations for the proper end-of-life of that material.

Eg: U.S. Mercury-Containing and Rechargeable Battery Act (The Battery Act)
➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/wp-cont...agementAct.pdf


and many more ...

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

As far as I could tell, there is no burden whatsoever placed on the manufacturers for the disposal of their batteries, be it recycling or whatever.

I'm not sure if it's law or company policy, but when I bought a new SLA deep-cycle battery this year, there was a $20 disposal fee tacked on, which I got back when I gave them my old battery. I also know that some electronic products now have an environmental surcharge which presumably underwrites the cost of recycling and disposal. This is in Ontario.

We are also encouraged to collect all our old small batteries and bring them all to the dump for free appropriate disposal when there's enough to justify the trip. Ditto for old or unused paints and chemicals.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I'm not sure if it's law or company policy, but when I bought a new SLA deep-cycle battery this year, there was a $20 disposal fee tacked on, which I got back when I gave them my old battery. I also know that some electronic products now have an environmental surcharge which presumably underwrites the cost of recycling and disposal. This is in Ontario.

We are also encouraged to collect all our old small batteries and bring them all to the dump for free appropriate disposal when there's enough to justify the trip. Ditto for old or unused paints and chemicals.

We have the same thing a 20 usd core charge which we get back when we give the core to them .

The local library has a collection box for used disposable batteries and the landfill has a paint locker. Where you can take your excess and people can go to get paint as well so it's upcycled

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

There is one 'hope' for the continued existance of humans at a kind of life-as-we-know-it level.

And that is the willing global adoption of social changes culminating in the self-abolition of the 'ownership mentality'.

Guess who the primary opponents of that idea are?...

Here's a wild guess . . . recent emigrés from Cuba and Venezuela?

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Exile

Here's a wild guess . . . recent emigrés from Cuba and Venezuela?

You wish.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Midnight Son

You wish.

How about from the former Soviet Union or Warsaw pact countries? Haven't noticed too many folks from Poland, Hungary or the nations that emerged from the former Czechoslovakia expressing longings for the 'good ol' days'.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by Exile

How about from the former Soviet Union or Warsaw pact countries? Haven't noticed too many folks from Poland, Hungary or the nations that emerged from the former Czechoslovakia expressing longings for the 'good ol' days'.

Strong-man politics is alive and well in much of the world. We, in the US, have even dabbled a bit with it ourselves recently.

Democracy in Poland Is in Mortal Danger

The EU Watches as Hungary Kills Democracy

Nostalgia for the Soviet Union

Reasons

According to polls, what is missed most about the former Soviet Union was its shared economic system, which provided a modicum of financial stability. Neoliberal economic reforms after the fall of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc resulted in harsh living standards for the general population.[10][11][12][13] Policies associated with privatization allowed of the country's economy to fall in the hands of a newly established business oligarchy. The sense of belonging to a great superpower was a secondary reason for the nostalgia; many felt humiliated and betrayed by their experiences throughout the 1990s and blamed the upheaval on advisors from Western powers, especially as NATO moved closer into Russia's sphere of influence.[14]

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SailOar

Strong-man politics is alive and well in much of the world. We, in the US, have even dabbled a bit with it ourselves recently.

Democracy in Poland Is in Mortal Danger

The EU Watches as Hungary Kills Democracy

Nostalgia for the Soviet Union

Reasons

According to polls, what is missed most about the former Soviet Union was its shared economic system, which provided a modicum of financial stability. Neoliberal economic reforms after the fall of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc resulted in harsh living standards for the general population.[10][11][12][13] Policies associated with privatization allowed of the country's economy to fall in the hands of a newly established business oligarchy. The sense of belonging to a great superpower was a secondary reason for the nostalgia; many felt humiliated and betrayed by their experiences throughout the 1990s and blamed the upheaval on advisors from Western powers, especially as NATO moved closer into Russia's sphere of influence.[14]

Unfortunately, strong-man politics and corruption are always either features of many govts or an ever-present threat, but nowhere have they been more pronounced in modern times -- with disastrous consequences -- than in overtly fascist or communist regimes. Capitalism and fre(er) market systems certainly have their shortcomings, but there's no disputing their record of lifting more people out of poverty than any alternative ever implemented or theorized. The choice lies between an unequal sharing of the wealth or an equal sharing of the misery. No need to speculate; we now have 100 years of historical proof.

[jimbunyard]

To everyone. Don't take things out of context. Under discussion are the manufacturers of electric vehicles and their batteries.

Originally Posted by GordMay

There certainly are, in many jurisdictions.
Companies that sell, market, or import batteries or select products containing a battery may have legal obligations for the proper end-of-life of that material.

Eg: U.S. Mercury-Containing and Rechargeable Battery Act (The Battery Act)
➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/wp-cont...agementAct.pdf


and many more ...

In short, the "Mercury-Containing and Rechargeable Battery Management Act"

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi...ents/p1104.pdf

has nothing to do with rechargable vehicle batteries. I cursorily looked, as I said, a few months ago after looking into real-life Tesla battery-life statistics (and finding the answer was 'sketchy'). Which of course led to 'what happens to the battery after its demise?'

And again, after a cursory look (maybe an hour?), I couldn't find that vehicle manufacturers were in any way held responsible.

If you have better information, I'd love to hear of it.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I'm not sure if it's law or company policy, but when I bought a new SLA deep-cycle battery this year, there was a $20 disposal fee tacked on, which I got back when I gave them my old battery. I also know that some electronic products now have an environmental surcharge which presumably underwrites the cost of recycling and disposal. This is in Ontario.

We are also encouraged to collect all our old small batteries and bring them all to the dump for free appropriate disposal when there's enough to justify the trip. Ditto for old or unused paints and chemicals.

I'm all for responsible recycling or disposal of the 'bad' products resulting from our extravagant, wasteful and priviledged way of life. What I'm talking about is the batteries in electric vehicles, which as far as I know are neither (majorly) mercury containing nor SSLAs nor SlAs.

Again I was astonished that I couldn't find where EV manufacturers were held responsible for the disposal of their batteries, if you know otherwise, please advise.

Originally Posted by newhaul

We have the same thing a 20 usd core charge which we get back when we give the core to them .

The local library has a collection box for used disposable batteries and the landfill has a paint locker. Where you can take your excess and people can go to get paint as well so it's upcycled

Down here it's 12.00. Which while mostly mandating via economics that people don't throw their dead batteres anywhere they want (a good thing), kinda cuts down on the amount of batteies I recycle at the scrap yard, where you get something around 10.00 apiece. (Their 'policies' change)

I'm all for reuse/recycle/proper disposal. Unfortunately, as the ability to do so is optional, I don't believe the norm is to do those things...

Originally Posted by Exile

Here's a wild guess . . . recent emigrés from Cuba and Venezuela?

Ridiculous and ignorant statements don't deserve a response, but for this I'll make an exception.

The obvious answer is 'those who make the most from that 'ownership mentality' '. Capitalists, especially corporate, political and religious (now there's a shoulda-been-an-oxymoron) ones.

Originally Posted by SailOar

Strong-man politics is alive and well in much of the world. We, in the US, have even dabbled a bit with it ourselves recently.

Democracy in Poland Is in Mortal Danger

The EU Watches as Hungary Kills Democracy

Nostalgia for the Soviet Union

Reasons

According to polls, what is missed most about the former Soviet Union was its shared economic system, which provided a modicum of financial stability. Neoliberal economic reforms after the fall of the USSR and the Eastern Bloc resulted in harsh living standards for the general population.[10][11][12][13] Policies associated with privatization allowed of the country's economy to fall in the hands of a newly established business oligarchy. The sense of belonging to a great superpower was a secondary reason for the nostalgia; many felt humiliated and betrayed by their experiences throughout the 1990s and blamed the upheaval on advisors from Western powers, especially as NATO moved closer into Russia's sphere of influence.[14]

And, so far, nothing has kept the authoritarians from whole-heartedly embracing the model set for them by the Islamic-derived (likely pre-Islamic, since such ideas are rarely formed by a single individual) form of enslavement called 'ownership' (read 'capitalism').

Nor is the disease confined to authoritarians or so-called democracies (which the US is not, at least in the representative definition of the word); it has taken over communist as well as socialism-based states with equal abandon.



Which is of course why it doesn't matter if one's on the 'correct' side of environmental responsibility or not.

Failing a civilizational-wide awakening to the fact that the Earth is a finite planet, and the lifestyles we've mistakenly come to take for granted, (more is better, my individual desires have nothing to do with their impact on the future, out of sight, out of mind, etc, ad nauseam), there is little doubt that the Earth will take back over within the next hundred years or so, reducing human impact to sustainable levels by strictly natural (read 'unpleasant, at best, to most') means.

It is an evolutionarially statistical fact, repeatedly observed with both microscopic and macroscopic forms of life to at least the 'Family' level.

[GordMay]

Recycling Laws By State [US] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycling-laws-by-state/
Including Louisiana ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycli...ate/#Louisiana

Provincial Recycling Regulations [CA] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.ca/provinci...g-regulations/

Laws, Regulations and Best Practices for Lithium Battery Packaging, Transport and Recycling in the United States and Canada
➥ https://naatbatt.org/lithium-recycling-laws/

[GordMay]

Wildfires Linked to Thousands of COVID-19 Cases and Hundreds of Deaths in 2020

A study [1], published in the peer-reviewed journal ‘Science Advances’, says thousands of COVID-19 cases, and hundreds of deaths, in California, Oregon and Washington state, from March to December 2020, may be linked to wildfire smoke.

The researchers used a statistical model, to measure the connection between high levels of fine particulate air pollution, or PM2.5, produced by the wildfires, and the number of COVID-19 cases and deaths in 92 counties.

They found a daily increase of 10 micrograms in PM2.5 per cubic meter of air for 28 days was associated with an 11.7% increase in COVID-19 cases, and an 8.4% increase in death.

Across the three states studied, researchers determined nearly 19,700 COVID-19 cases, and 750 deaths, were attributable to daily increases in PM2.5 from wildfires.

[1] “Excess of COVID-19 cases and deaths due to fine particulate matter exposure during the 2020 wildfires in the United States” ~ by Xiaodan Zhou et al
➥ https://advances.sciencemag.org/cont...i8789.full.pdf

See also:

“Inhalable Particulate Matter and Health (PM2.5 and PM10)” ~ California Air Resources Board [CARB]
➥ https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/inh...ctivity%20days.

“An ecological analysis of long-term exposure to PM2.5 and incidence of COVID-19 in Canadian health regions” ~ by David M.Stieb et al
➥ https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...1393512030949X

“Earth from Orbit: Wildfire Smoke Blankets U.S.” ~ National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service [NESDIS]
➥ https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/content/...ke-blankets-us

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Recycling Laws By State [US] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycling-laws-by-state/
Including Louisiana ➥ https://www.call2recycle.org/recycli...ate/#Louisiana

Provincial Recycling Regulations [CA] ➥ https://www.call2recycle.ca/provinci...g-regulations/

Laws, Regulations and Best Practices for Lithium Battery Packaging, Transport and Recycling in the United States and Canada
➥ https://naatbatt.org/lithium-recycling-laws/

None of those websites or the links contained in them say anything at all about where the responsiblity lies for the disposal of the astronomical amount of battery waste that will shortly follow the introduction of a mostly complete revision to EV vehicle usage.

My contention is that this is directly analagous to the blind acceptance of ICE tech by the powers-that-be 100 years ago, though their slight credit of ignorance might exonerate them somewhat.

The same powers nowadays don't, or shouldn't, have that 'protection' of ignorance.

It is also my contention that the recycling cost should be reflected in the cost of the vehicle and it shouldn't be allowed certification until the manufacturer demonstrates an economic and environmentally feasible recycle/reuse plan directly tied to the volume of product they produce.

If I remember correctly, Tesla, for instance, doesn't even have a viable battery recycle/reuse/ disposal plan, but that is a probably 1-2 year old memory, so things might have changed.

A big 'might'...

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

To everyone. Don't take things out of context. Under discussion are the manufacturers of electric vehicles and their batteries.



In short, the "Mercury-Containing and Rechargeable Battery Management Act"

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi...ents/p1104.pdf

has nothing to do with rechargable vehicle batteries. I cursorily looked, as I said, a few months ago after looking into real-life Tesla battery-life statistics (and finding the answer was 'sketchy'). Which of course led to 'what happens to the battery after its demise?'

And again, after a cursory look (maybe an hour?), I couldn't find that vehicle manufacturers were in any way held responsible.

If you have better information, I'd love to hear of it.




I'm all for responsible recycling or disposal of the 'bad' products resulting from our extravagant, wasteful and priviledged way of life. What I'm talking about is the batteries in electric vehicles, which as far as I know are neither (majorly) mercury containing nor SSLAs nor SlAs.

Again I was astonished that I couldn't find where EV manufacturers were held responsible for the disposal of their batteries, if you know otherwise, please advise.



Down here it's 12.00. Which while mostly mandating via economics that people don't throw their dead batteres anywhere they want (a good thing), kinda cuts down on the amount of batteies I recycle at the scrap yard, where you get something around 10.00 apiece. (Their 'policies' change)

I'm all for reuse/recycle/proper disposal. Unfortunately, as the ability to do so is optional, I don't believe the norm is to do those things...




Ridiculous and ignorant statements don't deserve a response, but for this I'll make an exception.

The obvious answer is 'those who make the most from that 'ownership mentality' '. Capitalists, especially corporate, political and religious (now there's a shoulda-been-an-oxymoron) ones.



And, so far, nothing has kept the authoritarians from whole-heartedly embracing the model set for them by the Islamic-derived (likely pre-Islamic, since such ideas are rarely formed by a single individual) form of enslavement called 'ownership' (read 'capitalism').

Nor is the disease confined to authoritarians or so-called democracies (which the US is not, at least in the representative definition of the word); it has taken over communist as well as socialism-based states with equal abandon.



Which is of course why it doesn't matter if one's on the 'correct' side of environmental responsibility or not.

Failing a civilizational-wide awakening to the fact that the Earth is a finite planet, and the lifestyles we've mistakenly come to take for granted, (more is better, my individual desires have nothing to do with their impact on the future, out of sight, out of mind, etc, ad nauseam), there is little doubt that the Earth will take back over within the next hundred years or so, reducing human impact to sustainable levels by strictly natural (read 'unpleasant, at best, to most') means.

It is an evolutionarially statistical fact, repeatedly observed with both microscopic and macroscopic forms of life to at least the 'Family' level.

https://www.tesla.com/support/sustainability-recycling