Seasteading

[Don C L]

They went "underground?"

[Alan Mighty]

Confused reports that the structure in the Thailand exclusive economic zone may have been toppled by explosives.

The references to going underground is metaphoric. The penalties for crimes that could be laid include the death penalty, see: https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...state#cxrecs_s

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

They went "underground?"

I think they ment they went to ground not underground. Aka attempt,to disappear amongst the local population.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I think they ment they went to ground not underground. Aka attempt,to disappear amongst the local population.

I'm fairly certain Don was poking fun at the terminology used. Like having a sunken living room in a house boat.

Wouldn't want to be living in that structure if a TS or typhoon was going to hit the area.


Bill O.

[letsgetsailing3]

There are all sorts of problems with this idea.


Though I suppose some of them are fairly obvious at this point.

[a64pilot]

Just curious, why the over the top response from the Government?
You would think they would just laugh at the idiot.
Must be way more to this, they I guess must be concerned about it being a precedent for something, like China building an island or similar?

[john61ct]

Thai nationalism is fanatical compared to most other countries, even among the ordinary, very laid back population. Among the military, in reaction to relatively wealthy Westerners, fuggedaboudit.

They want us as a revenue source, temporary visitors only as long as the income stream continues. Just setting up even a small joint venture requires crazy payments to lawyers, bureaucrats police and the local military PTB, basically acts as a racketeering network, rule of law is not at all a sure thing, used as a cudgel toward foreigners.

Great place to visit and live as an expat comfortably financed from elsewhere, but not the place to be in any way entrepreneurial.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Confused reports that the structure in the Thailand exclusive economic zone may have been toppled by explosives.

The references to going underground is metaphoric. The penalties for crimes that could be laid include the death penalty, see: https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...state#cxrecs_s

Wow. Death penalty or life in prison.

They now stand accused of breaching Section 119 of the Criminal Code. This concerns any act that causes the kingdom, or parts of it, to fall under the sovereignty of a foreign power. It also covers other acts that diminish Thailand's independence.

Those two people in that little box in international waters pose a threat to Thailand's independence?

[john61ct]

Gotta make them an example, keeping foreigners from having influence inside the kingdom is a singular point of pride in the jingoistic national identity pounded into every child from birth, only country in Asia never colonized etc.

Even if it is a crock, brainwashed myths are stronger than reality - many aspects of which are forbidden to be discussed, under yes very harsh lèse-majesté sentences, even muttering about the junta, or stepping on a currency note to stop it blowing away (image of the monarch).

Try writing about the military human-trafficking refugee boat people for slave labor on the fishing fleet.

Financial Times banned, reporters and book authors jailed, hundreds of Thai citizens as well. Freedom of expression has never been part of that culture. . .

Even if sentenced to life, likely that the King would pardon them after a few years. Very little chance they'd be executed.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Don C L

They went "underground?"

It's actually pretty easy to get out of Thailand illegally, long as you have enough money.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

It's actually pretty easy to get out of Thailand illegally, long as you have enough money.

I think their point is that they weren’t in Thailand, and one would suppose to attempt what they were attempting that they weren’t in Thailand, cause if they were, then their attempt was doomed before it began.
That’s assuming I understand what they were attempting.

[TravelinLight]

I am sure the new and free country they are setting up will have a rigorous defense set up for them to protest such action? Their military will also be there to protect their property.

[letsgetsailing3]

What country, outside of just a tourism island, would let you do this?

Seems like if you were going to do it, you'd do it near a resort island. But then who would save you from pirates?

You can pretend you're "countryless", but you'll still be depending on trade and country infrastructures for things like trade, security, medications, health care, and passports.

Don't even pretend you wouldn't be listening to the radio or visiting the nearby country.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think their point is that they weren’t in Thailand, and one would suppose to attempt what they were attempting that they weren’t in Thailand, cause if they were, then their attempt was doomed before it began.
That’s assuming I understand what they were attempting.

Sounds like they were planning on selling condos without any land.

[Singularity]

So here is a law journal article from 2008 on the principle legal issues around seasteading. In the article, a ~company called TSI is referenced; this company was considering creating a seastead (etc).

In a nutshell, a structure that connects to the sea floor in a country's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) is subject to target practice. I understand that the Thailand nut was just outside 12 miles, invariably in the contiguous zone; the US's EEZ can extend over 200 miles. Other hurdles to be successful in such endeavors are reviewed.

The Territorial Sea, the Contiguous Zone, and the Exclusive Economic Zone

-The territorial sea extends twelve nautical miles from the baseline of a nation’’s coast,84 and the United States’’ sovereignty extends to the ““air space over the territorial sea as well as to its bed and subsoil.””85

-The contiguous zone stretches from the edge of the territorial sea outwards another twelve nautical miles.86 Here, the United States is allowed to exert limited control for two purposes: (1) to prevent the infringement of ““customs, fiscal, immigration, or sanitary laws and regulations”” and (2) to punish such infringement.87 Even if seasteads were not recognized as sovereignties, merely establishing their own form of self-rule in contravention to the mores of the United States would give the United States jurisdiction over them; as such, being within either the territorial seas or the contiguous zone are the least desirable locations for TSI’’s seasteads.

-The exclusive economic zone (EEZ) extends from the outer edge of the contiguous zone up to 200 nautical miles, for a total of 224 miles from a country’’s coastline.88 In the EEZ, the United States has ““sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources.””89 These resources include the ““living [and] non-living,”” as well as the ““sea-bed and its subsoil.””90 Moreover, the United States has sovereign rights with respect to ““economic exploitation”” of the EEZ,91 which include harnessing energy from wind and water sources.92