Slapping Halyards

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Some people just don't get it. Maybe if they spent more time on their boat they would understand just how noisy a slapping halyard can be.

For those with their panties bunched up over this "trespass",if your neighbors gate was slapping open and closed all night would you go latch it to make it stop?


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...the same clowns go over to the anchorage once a year...and complain about everyone else's behavior.

Been around the water enough to know...living aboard for the 3rd time, one a sailboat a few years back...and have a few around the buoy trophies so I'm not just a stinkpotter.

I've NEVER met anyone that thought clanging halyards was anything but the sign of a lazy or novice sailor...and NEVER music to anyone's ears.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by psneeld

I've NEVER met anyone that thought clanging halyards was anything but the sign of a lazy or novice sailor...and NEVER music to anyone's ears.

agree .. and i never hesitate to fix the problem if noone is aboard the offensive boat

[clockwork orange]

As I said earlier, i personally don't mind the sound either and in a marina environment you expect noise, your living in a small city. Even in an anchorage i can put up with it as its not that close but I cant tolerate it on my own boat as it is amplified by the mast into the boat, but the point that seems to be lost on a lot of folks on this thread is not if you like or dislike the sound, be it slapping halyards or genset, ITS NOT ABOUT YOU, to me its about the whole concept of even considering how what you do impacts others around you. Im really getting the impression that most people don't even consider this at all, its all about me me me. Very disappointing.

Steve.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

What many people dont understand, its not there right or responsibility.
dosent have anything to do with the slapping, its stepping over the line that belongs to someone else.

and further, while I was talking to a guy on the dock a week or so ago, he bent down to my dock line and rolled it in a neet little sprial.. when he was through , I kicked it over into the water, pulled it out and piled the coulpe of feet of the dock line. now he migh have all the right reasons why he did what he did, BUT, it belongs to me, not him.

It all has to do with boundries..

Yep boundries...different ones usually set by different societies.

Many polite societies have enacted "noise ordinances" and based on my experience...slapping halyards will not be in the majorities threshold of tolerance. Slapping halyards would be stepping over "that" line and has been wherever I have boated.

If you don't mind slapping halyards...just make sure you are someplace where the majority agrees with you...so far in my experience...that place is usually when you are someplace totally by yourself, out of earshot.

I agree with the line on the dock thing...some dockmasters even prohibit Flemish coils for dirt/rot reasons whether true or not.

In my experience...I have NEVER heard of or experienced a sailor who had flapping halyards properly adjusted by a good SAM complain...they are often embarrassed and humbly apologize. Usually because the rather large group standing around supporting the teller of the deed...

[gabilo]

[QUOTE=Randyonr3;15787



and further, while I was talking to a guy on the dock a week or so ago, he bent down to my dock line and rolled it in a neet little sprial.. when he was through , I kicked it over into the water, pulled it out and piled the coulpe of feet of the dock line. now he migh have all the right reasons why he did what he did, BUT, it belongs to me, not him.



It all has to do with boundries..[/QUOTE]


Wasting your time with such stupid actions is beyond me, if it makes the guy happy to make little spirals on the dock with lines so what? YOU stepped over the boundaries of good manner and curtesy with your action.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

...but the point that seems to be lost on a lot of folks on this thread is not if you like or dislike the sound, be it slapping halyards or genset, ITS NOT ABOUT YOU, to me its about the whole concept of even considering how what you do impacts others around you. Im really getting the impression that most people don't even consider this at all, its all about me me me. Very disappointin.

Thank you. Well put Steve. It's just common courtesy.

Randyonr3, the guy who coiled your dock line probably assumed you were a new sailor, and was trying to help you learn. You do realize it's a basic safety issue. A bunched up pile of dock line is a serious tripping hazard. A flemish flake can be more safely walked on. He should have talked with you first, and asked why you were doing what you were doing, but your reaction was equally insulting.

Does no one just talk to people anymore

[campuscab]

All kidding aside I didn't even think that could annoy anyone but I keep mine clipped to a ring in the mast. I am lucky because I am at a small Marina and these people are like family to me now. Everyone there is great. If anyone has a problem all they have to do is bring it up. I have many blocks, sail ties and other stuff that have been donated to my boat from the other sailors. We try to help each other out.
That's why I like sailing, it's the people that make it great. I can not even compare it to power boating. I might make digs at the well off retired guys but it is nothing but what we call in the hood as player hating. I can't wait till I have the chance to sail off for far shores. Also while I picked out a very capable small boat it sure would be nice to stand up. So sometimes I might make a crack or two but everyone out here I appreciate. There is a wealth of knowledge. Sailing is like golf it is something that can never be master. We learn something new every day.

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[fryewe]

Slapping halyards are unseamanlike.

But if they keep you awake you haven't worked and played hard enough or had enough rum.

Sailing and sailboats are noisy.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by campuscab

All kidding aside I didn't even think that could annoy anyone but I keep mine clipped to a ring in the mast. I am lucky because I am at a small Marina and these people are like family to me now. Everyone there is great. If anyone has a problem all they have to do is bring it up. I have many blocks, sail ties and other stuff that have been donated to my boat from the other sailors. We try to help each other out.
That's why I like sailing, it's the people that make it great. I can not even compare it to power boating. I might make digs at the well off retired guys but it is nothing but what we call in the hood as player hating. I can't wait till I have the chance to sail off for far shores. Also while I picked out a very capable small boat it sure would be nice to stand up. So sometimes I might make a crack or two but everyone out here I appreciate. There is a wealth of knowledge. Sailing is like golf it is something that can never be master. We learn something new every day.

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Both have their good and bad elements...just like both have personality types that are always looking out for others and some who say screw the world, me first.

There's just so many more power boaters in some areas...there's just way more of all types of personalities.

And boating in general is like anything else...put a rat in a cage and it's curious, put a lot of them in the cage and they start getting aggressive....people aren't too different.

In my most recent case...the poor sailor is new, and hardly here. The winds here were 15kts plus all week and by Saturday he had the whole marina annoyed at him. None of the other sailboats were slapping.

So when he shows up....for the want of a little courtesy, common sense and bits of something to tie with (if even necessary)...he might have a completely different start to the weekend.

It takes a lot to annoy me...what annoys me probably even more is listening to all the others who really are annoyed with it. So stopping it does stop a whole chain of events that really aren't necessary...even criminal trespass if it ever comes to that.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It would take an extreme case for me to step, uninvited, onto someone else's boat. I would try and talk to the person first. But if there was a loud and repeat offender I might take that step. After all this person is already trespassing and destroying my auditory space.

And seriously, how hard is it to tie off halyards anyway. .

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

What many people dont understand, its not there right or responsibility.
dosent have anything to do with the slapping, its stepping over the line that belongs to someone else.

I capitulated over the stowing of halyards some pages ago.

What continues to irk me is the absolute belief the is it perfectly OK to board someone's boat for their own purposes.

The swinging gate analogy is not right.

How about entering someone's home to turn off their tv.

So what if I am an ass and leave my tv or stereo on and trespass on your auditory space? Your bike, bbq, jerry cans and deck flotsam are trespassing on my visual space.

Is it OK if I board and throw them over the side?

Randy's got it right - there are boundaries.

You do get to complain, you do get to leave a note. You can even file a police report with the auditory police and can also call me unseamanlike (if you want) but you can't board my boat.

It's trespassing.

(edit - BTW I call BS on all you halyard police, anyway. If you all were boarding all these boats there would be no rigged halyards. Every marina I've ever been in has tons of boats with slapping halyards - so get yer asses busy - there's work to be done!)

[hellosailor]

"If you come aboard for your convenience or even to put out that fire it is trespassing and it is illegal.
Last time I checked slapping halyards were not illegal."

Relax Dan, all laws are local and as every Federal justice will tell you, California ain't quite the same as anyplace else in the US.

Cross an inboard boat rafted up at a dock, and you're not trespassing, are you? Cross a piece of real property that isn't posted and fenced, and you might not be charged with fourth degree trespass with a penalty confined to a verbal warning on the first time. All depends on LOCAL laws and Cali, ain't local everywhere.

Fire on a boat? That's a threat to everyone in the area, and I don't know the legal principle but since fire is a public threat, I've never heard of anyone charged with trespass for putting out a fire that threatens to take out the neighborhood.

In fact, even the "threat" of noisy halyards is arguable. You might agree that slapping halyards disturb the domestic tranquility of a place. Guess what? In some states the archaic militia laws, and the archaic state constitutions, actually place a burden on the citizens to "preserve the domestic tranquility". Yes, there are often state laws that basically say everyone has the burden of keeping the peace. You won't find any judge happy to open that can of worms, but the laws remain. The principles remain. So, tying or cutting the neighbor's halyards?

Sure, it might be trespassing but as they really did say in Texas, "Your Honor, he just needed killin'."

Works for me. Worked for that judge, too.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

<snip>

Relax Dan, all laws are local and as every Federal justice will tell you, California ain't quite the same as anyplace else in the US.

<snip>

In fact, even the "threat" of noisy halyards is arguable. You might agree that slapping halyards disturb the domestic tranquility of a place.

<snip>

So, tying or cutting the neighbor's halyards?

Sure, it might be trespassing but as they really did say in Texas, "Your Honor, he just needed killin'."

Works for me. Worked for that judge, too.

Don't worry, I am pretty relaxed. I been around here long enough not to take this internet stuff too seriously.

In terms of domestic tranquility, the boat next to me keeps cycling it's bilge pump. I find the motor noise less than tranquil and the water splashing is annoying.

I gotta find my wire cutters, cuz that bilge pump just needs killin'.

In the meantime I expect all those noisy US marinas to be cleaned up of all their halyards by the time I get back next...

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

Don't worry, I am pretty relaxed. I been around here long enough not to take this internet stuff too seriously.

In terms of domestic tranquility, the boat next to me keeps cycling it's bilge pump. I find the motor noise less than tranquil and the water splashing is annoying.

I gotta find my wire cutters, cuz that bilge pump just needs killin'.

In the meantime I expect all those noisy US marinas to be cleaned up of all their halyards by the time I get back next...

They are pretty much everywhere and wherever I've been because of peer pressure...it's quiet tonight here at the marina after someone tied off MR. Newbie Sailor's halyards the other night...even being the 4th of July Mr, Newbie sailor never visited his boat.

He's more likely to come back to a runaway boat from broken lines or sunk from neglect...but probably not...because the "good" sailors around here will take care of him by retying his lines, pumping out his boat if sinking (even if it means cutting off his padlock) and fixing his noisy halyards...like everyone says around here...thankfully there's a good group to help each other out.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

So what if I am an ass and leave my tv or stereo on and trespass on your auditory space? Your bike, bbq, jerry cans and deck flotsam are trespassing on my visual space.

Is it OK if I board and throw them over the side?

Randy's got it right - there are boundaries.

Yes, there are boundaries, and they are mostly culturally-based. Your absolutism over property rights is typical of a western capitalist world view. This self-evident truth (to you) does not have the same standing the world over. You, of all people, should appreciate this. You're attempting to use an ad absurdum argument with your bike example. It might be more valid if you used hanging goat entrails or human feaces.

I've already said numerous times that stepping on board someone else's boat to quiet clanging halyards would be an extreme circumstance. But if other options were exhausted, someone who continued to impose their auditory pollution on everyone else would deserve nothing less than an equal imposition on their property rights.

The problem with current "rights" discussions is that they are perceived in terms of absolutes. Rights are intertwined with responsibilities. Too many of us have forgotten the second part.

[Neptune's Gear]

Agreed mike, that's why I said before, I'll leave a note, talk to the owner, explain several times. If all that fails I'll pull the offending halyard to the top of the mast. As the owner is inconveniencing everyone else, time for them to have some inconvenience! I've really only done that once, but it got the message across!


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