What It Takes to Be in the 1% Around the World

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by JBP

Normal "yachts", not super yachts. From https://algnewsletter.com/maritime/t...he-flag-state/

Looking at this once again, and assuming the data is accurate*, the differences between Australia and New Zealand, or Canada and Australia, or even Canada and the USA, do seem ... interesting. Even the difference between Norway and Sweden stand out.

From my superficial standpoint, NZ and Aus. seem quite similar, so why the differnce in rates? Again superficially, Canada and Australia are often comparable. I really doubt Canada has a higher proportion of people living near shorelines than the USA does. And Norway and Sweden seem quite similar in a lot of ways. Norway has more shoreline, but is that why???

Interesting...


*Canada's rate really seems odd to me. I've never seen any indication that we were such a boating outlier.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

This is just an indication that the word "socialist" has been abused to absurdity. The US Democratic party is not socialist. There's just about nowhere in the US where the government predominently follows the principles of actual socialist states found in the rest of the world. Bernie Sanders would not be considered particularly socialist if he was from just about any other country, save some authoritarian ones.

I guess it's all relative, of course. If most people lean right, than anyone advocating for public education or unemployment benefits will look like Karl Marx.

Note: I didn't say "they are socialist". I said they "lean" or are "more" socialist. No "pure" economic system has ever been implemented anywhere in the world.

Yes, on a state level they are more limited in terms of implementing socialist principals as they must still reigned in by the federal system but if the premise put out in jest was true, presumably the more you tilt toward socialism, the more yachts the country would have. I'm sure it was just an oversight when putting the graph together as Venezuelans must surely have 3-4 yachts per person.

So what countries are you speaking of that wouldn't consider Bernie a socialist?
Here's a list of socialist countries for reference to highlight the issue:
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...socialist.html

PS: While totally eliminating education and social safety nets isn't a good idea. Our current public education system and unemployment system at least in the USA have huge issues. Again, it's not all or nothing. Just as capitalism needs guardrails, so does socialism.

PPS: Yes, the names of economic theories do get used and abused. Some of it is simple lack of understanding, some of it is the definition changes over time and in many cases it gets adopted not because it's in line with the academic definition but because it's good PR.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

PS: While totally eliminating education and social safety nets isn't a good idea. Our current public education system and unemployment system at least in the USA have huge issues.

Yeah. Poor coordination, political meddling and inadequate funding.

PPS: Yes, the names of economic theories do get used and abused. Some of it is simple lack of understanding, some of it is the definition changes over time and in many cases it gets adopted not because it's in line with the academic definition but because it's good PR.

I guess the bolded part is my one serious point - that 'socialist', like 'racist', has become a polarized epithet. Moreover, it seems that in the US, 'socialist' has been equated with 'communist'... so if one can plausibly label an opponent or a position 'socialist', it's now patriots vs the red menace...

[danstanford]

Seems to be lots of us with socialist leanings on here....

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So what countries are you speaking of that wouldn't consider Bernie a socialist?
Here's a list of socialist countries for reference to highlight the issue:
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...socialist.html

Bernie Sander's political perspectives would make him pretty centrist in Canada, and I believe most other top yacht-owning countries ().

I was playing with The Political Compass a while back. You get to see where you sit on the political spectrum, at least according to this tool's interpretation. It's hours of fun. They've situation Bernie as a comparator. He's situated in the bottom-left quadrant, but not deeply so. Hardly a radical by global standards.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Seems to be lots of us with socialist leanings on here....

You mean yacht owners ?

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I guess the bolded part is my one serious point - that 'socialist', like 'racist', has become a polarized epithet.

No more an epithet than capitalist these days.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I guess the bolded part is my one serious point - that 'socialist', like 'racist', has become a polarized epithet. Moreover, it seems that in the US, 'socialist' has been equated with 'communist'... so if one can plausibly label an opponent or a position 'socialist', it's now patriots vs the red menace...

Socialist, capitalist...lots of "...ist" get thrown around as polarized epithets.

Fascist is a favorite for misuse (though more limited in terms of economic system discussion). Most people at least have a vague if not entirely correct understanding of capitalist, socialist and communist. Issues usually arise when they use reductio ad absurdum coupled with a partial understanding. Fascist gets thrown around with almost no understanding of what it is or where it came from. About the only thing most people using the term know that is somewhat factual is Mussolini was a fascist. After that it's just anyone who disagrees with you must be a fascist. Doesn't matter if you are conservative/liberal, capitalist/socialist...if you don't agree you must be a fascist.

Socialist to communist...if we are talking the academic definitions, they are actually very closely related with many of the early proponents seeing socialism as a stepping stone towards communism which they saw as the end goal. So it's easy to see that link being made but again it usually goes the reductio ad absurdum route very quickly.

Of course, there is no country that is even remotely close to the academic definition of communist and even most so called socialist countries would be hard pressed to claim to fully meet the definition. Likewise, there is no pure unrestrained capitalist countries.

In reality it's more a question of how heavy handed the govt gets. Socialist leaning countries tend to be ready for the govt to step in as soon as someone deems things are not resulting in equal enough outcomes. Capitalist are more of a light hand only wanting to step in if things start to get out of hand...taken to the extreme either has problems.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Bernie Sander's political perspectives would make him pretty centrist in Canada, and I believe most other top yacht-owning countries ().

I was playing with The Political Compass a while back. You get to see where you sit on the political spectrum, at least according to this tool's interpretation. It's hours of fun. They've situation Bernie as a comparator. He's situated in the bottom-left quadrant, but not deeply so. Hardly a radical by global standards.

Thought provoking chart for sure. I put Trump way further left than in this chart though his actions, driven by his adopted party, are pretty much accurate to the chart.
Listening to the commentary of many diverse friends I note a stronger correlation between their distaste of the actions/statements of politicians based on the vertical axis than the horizontal.

[GordMay]

American households held over $98 trillion of wealth, in 2018.
In 2018, U.S. households held over $113 trillion in assets.
➥ https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/20190606/html/b101h.htm

Now, for some Socialist arithmetic:
If that amount were divided evenly across the U.S. population of 329 million, it would result in over $343,000 for each person. For a family of three, that’s over a million dollars in assets - enough to finance a modest cruising yacht.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Bernie Sander's political perspectives would make him pretty centrist in Canada, and I believe most other top yacht-owning countries ().

I was playing with The Political Compass a while back. You get to see where you sit on the political spectrum, at least according to this tool's interpretation. It's hours of fun. They've situation Bernie as a comparator. He's situated in the bottom-left quadrant, but not deeply so. Hardly a radical by global standards.

Fun Cosmo quiz but who exactly determined Bernie's position.

Obviously, some of them I have to speculate on because I'm not in his head and then there's the public statements vs what he believes (because no politician says what they think will get them elected even if they don't believe it) but I entered it based on Bernies public positions and I came up with him pretty close to the bottom left.

Of course, based on what his wealth and political position suggest, I could reassess and have him move up and to the right significantly. How much of his "position" is simply entrenching due to his popularity in the political world vs what he really believes?

Then there is the issue he's old so the impacts he faces over the next 40-70yrs aren't really a consideration to him.

Then again when I took it I came out about 1/3 to the right and in the middle up vs down but probably 2/3 of the questions were written in such a manner I don't agree or disagree because they are illogical and appear to be an effort to get a certain result.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by GordMay

American households held over $98 trillion of wealth, in 2018.
In 2018, U.S. households held over $113 trillion in assets.
➥ https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/20190606/html/b101h.htm

Now, for some Socialist arithmetic:
If that amount were divided evenly across the U.S. population of 329 million, it would result in over $343,000 for each person. For a family of three, that’s over a million dollars in assets - enough to finance a modest cruising yacht.

I haven't gone to the study, but do you know if this statement of assets is before or after debt? Further, the data probably is not available yet but it would be interesting to note the increase in assets over the last 24-36 months as real estate values have spiked.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I really doubt Canada has a higher proportion of people living near shorelines than the USA does. And Norway and Sweden seem quite similar in a lot of ways. Norway has more shoreline, but is that why???

Doesn't Canada have a lot of lakes?

Seems like a lot of Canadians are living near some body of water.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by GordMay

American households held over $98 trillion of wealth, in 2018.
In 2018, U.S. households held over $113 trillion in assets.
➥ https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/20190606/html/b101h.htm

Now, for some Socialist arithmetic:
If that amount were divided evenly across the U.S. population of 329 million, it would result in over $343,000 for each person. For a family of three, that’s over a million dollars in assets - enough to finance a modest cruising yacht.

I'm not sure that kind of statistic has any actual meaning at all. Particularly if you're not going to make the top 10 billionaires pay taxes on their capital gains.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Doesn't Canada have a lot of lakes?

Seems like a lot of Canadians are living near some body of water.

Yes... so do Americans.

As I said, it's not obvious to me that Canada has a higher proportion of its population living close to a coast or shoreline.