World population is growing 20 million people every 3 months

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

You'd be surprised that the guys working at the utilities who know this stuff quite well are investing in solar more than any other generation technology.

Don't get me wrong, I love nuclear power...but economics are driving this bus now.

Sure because the govt is subsidizing solar. When economics get distorted, lots of strange things happen.

In small percentages, solar can fit in but as we can see from the german model, after around 10%, more solar simply translates into more cost.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Looks like you're going to need a picture.

Notice how the curved part goes way down at night and up during the day?

Did you notice the little arrow showing the "hourly demand peak"...pointing to a spot around 5-6pm?

Where exactly does that power come from? Do they use your excess power to spin up the turbines a bit faster and then draw it off starting around 5pm to make up the difference?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Did you notice the little arrow showing the "hourly demand peak"...pointing to a spot around 5-6pm?

Where exactly does that power come from? Do they use your excess power to spin up the turbines a bit faster and then draw it off starting around 5pm to make up the difference?

Apparently, you're a very slow learner.

Did you miss the other 23 hours of the graph outside the 5-6pm time slot?

Repeat again.... Demand goes up day, down night. Up day, down night.

[UAEguy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Looks like you're going to need a picture.

Notice how the curved part of the graph goes way down at night and then way up during the day?

Repeat after me... Demand goes up day, down night. Up day, down night.

Again... up day, down night. You'll get it.

Peak power really is a complex question because it depends on time of year, location, industry load, size of municipality etc etc.

However, here is a actual plot of energy production in Germany for an entire week by generation type.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Pew research group Asked whether or not the growing world population will be a major problem, 59% of Americans agreed it will strain the planet’s natural resources, while 82% of U.S.-based members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science said the same. Just 17% of AAAS scientists and 38% of Americans said population growth won’t be a problem because we will find a way to stretch natural resources.



Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Science boffans are the wrong people to ask.

Ask the engineers who will be assigned to make the next generation's living conditions more fun, efficient and effective.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Apparently, you're a very slow learner.

Did you miss the other 23 hours of the graph outside the 5-6pm time slot?

Repeat again.... Demand goes up day, down night. Up day, down night.

Analogy: So your saying if you have a car and most of the time you just drive around town never exceeding 25mph but occasionally, you NEED to drive a few hundred miles away and NEED to go 55mph...get a car with a top speed of 25mph? (you are assuming you can borrow your neighbor's car that will do 110mph for free)

That's equivalent to what you are saying.

There are solutions beyond simple storage but none are free. Demand based pricing is the obvious solution but even that requires hundreds of million of meters and other grid components be swapped out at huge costs.

[UAEguy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I live in Massachusetts..... not Germany. All I care about is the energy consumption curve for New England.

Germans can worry about their own power consuption graph.

Simply trying to illustrate that peak power is not a stationary point during the week or month or location, New England, Germany or Arizona.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

Simply trying to illustrate that peak power is not a stationary point during the week or month or location, New England, Germany or Arizona.

I know. I was just trying to have some fun. Thanks for your contribution. Post removed.

Cheers.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Analogy: So your saying if you have a car and most of the time you just drive around town never exceeding 25mph but occasionally, you NEED to drive a few hundred miles away and NEED to go 55mph...get a car with a top speed of 25mph? (you are assuming you can borrow your neighbor's car that will do 110mph for free)

That's equivalent to what you are saying.

There are solutions beyond simple storage but none are free. Demand based pricing is the obvious solution but even that requires hundreds of million of meters and other grid components be swapped out at huge costs.

It might be best for you to quit while you're behind.

Time to go to bed now.... and TURN OFF THE LIGHTS.


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln."

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It might be best for you to quit while you're behind.


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln."

Were you talking to yourself?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

Human fear and government regulations have crippled the nuclear energy future. Unless there is a massive change in the way we manage nuclear power plant construction and regulation, it won't be competitive with the coming of the Organic Photovoltaic (OPV) technology which will make $0.20/W Solar a reality in the next decade. OPV will be produced by the kilometer on 60" wide PET film and no other power source will come close to the rate of payback nor the life of the investment. Solar power will crush the competition hands down.

Yes, OPV is really exciting. This is the kind of progress which will change things.

Just remember, though, that solar doesn't actually "compete" with nuclear or indeed gas-fired power plants -- rather, complements them. That's because the sun doesn't shine all the time.

Solar is fantastic, but it needs better storage technology in order to actually replace other power sources. On large scale power grid applications it's possible to pump water uphill etc. but that's a whole other system, the cost of which (both capital and running) has to be added to the costs of the solar installation.

Solar is also a perfect power source for boats, since we have the storage already built in. Unfortunately very hard to retrofit to most sailing yachts, like mine, without adding a lot of windage which kills upwind performance. My next boat will be designed to allow solar panels to be built into the pilothouse roof with zero windage. Meanwhile I use the fossilized organic matter in a heavy duty generator.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

. . . . Demand based pricing is the obvious solution but even that requires hundreds of million of meters and other grid components be swapped out at huge costs.

It is irrational and market-distorting to NOT have demand based pricing. You're giving away the cost of the peak capacity for free. In other words, it costs more to produce power during peak demand, so why sell it for the same price?

Rational pricing will make the system much more efficient, and will get consumers to store power or reschedule power use when it makes sense to do so, which will shift around demand to a more efficient profile.

As others have said, solar power is great for taking care of some of the peaks -- particularly where lots of air conditioning is being used. To take away solar gain Solar power output and demand for air conditioning have quite a bit of correlation . . .

[UAEguy]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Solar is fantastic, but it needs better storage technology in order to actually replace other power sources. On large scale power grid applications it's possible to pump water uphill etc. but that's a whole other system, the cost of which (both capital and running) has to be added to the costs of the solar installation.

Kinda touched on this with StuM, multi-use solar farm reservoirs are on the drawing boards enabling efficient energy storage, evaporation protection and cheap surface area for PV.

Two reservoirs at different altitudes work to provide extremely efficient and reliable energy storage.

[Larry Florida]

There was a line in a movie wherein an advanced intellect alien commented about humans vs other species of animals on earth. Concluded humans were unlike the other animals, more like a virus.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by UAEguy

Just keep telling yourself that.

These are the facts:

- Population growth is slowing down. Most countries have finished the demographic transition to low birth rates and low death rates. A few are still not there though. Growth rate is now 1.1%, which is half of what it was in the 60ies. The population is expected to peak somewhere in the second half of this century and will then slowly decline.

You can keep telling yourself something else of course. There is a thecnical term for that I think...