Experienced couch sailor

[boatpoker]

Wanna know what you are getting into ... here ya go ...
Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection

[MicHughV]

charter a boat with a captain and crew.....you gotta start somewhere..

that two people....from Alabama...of all places...would even consider buying a "big boat" is a bit on the lubricous side to begin with..

I think someone is yanking our chain.....

[TrentePieds]

Well, let's not pick on a poor sod from Alabama. He would have enough troubles already, though it could be worse - he could be from Florida ;-0)!

Spellcheck did you dirt. "Lubricious" means "lecherous". I think you meant "ludicrous". And that it is!

So yeah - it's hard to know how serious to take this one :-)

TP

[MicHughV]

yes indeed....ludicrous it is....my bad....my fingers type quicker than my brain can think...

[PUDDLE JUMPER II]

Welcome....

Advice...

1)
Move into a 38' RV ASAP... Learn the art of stowage, practice being creative within small spaces w/pets... (You + wife + pets need this experience as a part of your future transition)

2)
Charter a week long getaway some where in Bahamas or USVI on a 38' Monohull... Do not charter a CAT if you are buying a mono

3)
Make a spreadsheet of things + features of a boat that you think you would like in a boat you plan to purchase...

4)
Hire a Sailboat Purchasing consultant when you are ready to purchase to curb naive enthusiasm, provide logical advice, and guide you through a thorough offer, sea trial, and negotiation process...

5)
Join a yacht club in your geo-- spend time around the yard and volunteering to be deck hands-- bring snacks and beer-- who doesn't appreciate a newbie willing to make an effort? You will have opportunities to help others move their dreams forward...


Spend more $$ on a boat that is functional NOW, and not 'terribly' neglected-- better to fall in love with FRG girl who is sail ready, than a project boat as your first. This should be avoided at all costs-- for the sake of your marriage, job, and quality of life...

[Nailhead432]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice. I have been mulling it over some time now with the wife and this is the plan thus far.

1. Get ASA 101 - 104 for both of us. This will give us some experience and time on the water.

2. Move to Pensacola. Why Pensacola you may ask? Not fond of big, crowded cities. Also, we both play ice hockey...so, there needs to be a rink within the vicinity. Mucho closer to the water than I currently am. There are some cheap housing options available which will allow us to downsize our lives and live on a much tighter budget.

3. Having been a diesel mechanic for 25+ years, maybe I can find work at a boat yard and get some hands on experience with other people's boats before I get a chance to screw mine up. Obviously, I'd secure a job before moving my family to another state. I'm crazy, not stupid.

4. Buy a <$20k sailboat, pick your flavor, and take it out on the weekends, day sailing and maybe a couple of overnighters on anchor. Once again, gives us more practical experience on the water.

Now we are reaching the territory of Lala land in my grand scheme. But let me know on a scale of possible to nuck'n futs you think this is. A lot of pieces would have to fall into place, tons of logistical issues and what not. I get all that, but follow along on this crazy dream. Though it goes without saying, but this is with the understanding that somewhere along the way, either of us doesn't decide that this is crazy and neither of us like it.

5. While gaining experience and living on the cheap, save buckets of money. Buckets of money needed to build our own boat from scratch. The more I research, the more I like the idea of a steel hull boat. Just doing some napkin math and the current cost of 1/4" steel plate, I calculated that it would take somewhere around 55 plates of 4x12 to build the hull of a 60 foot boat. Why 60? Why not. This is Lala land. So, I think that's around $85,000 in steel. I heard somewhere that the hull is 1/3 the cost of a boat. So, budget somewhere around $300,000 to $400,000 should be enough. Whatcha think?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Nailhead432

Thanks for all the wonderful advice. I have been mulling it over some time now with the wife and this is the plan thus far.

1. Get ASA 101 - 104 for both of us. This will give us some experience and time on the water.

2. Move to Pensacola. Why Pensacola you may ask? Not fond of big, crowded cities. Also, we both play ice hockey...so, there needs to be a rink within the vicinity. Mucho closer to the water than I currently am. There are some cheap housing options available which will allow us to downsize our lives and live on a much tighter budget.

3. Having been a diesel mechanic for 25+ years, maybe I can find work at a boat yard and get some hands on experience with other people's boats before I get a chance to screw mine up. Obviously, I'd secure a job before moving my family to another state. I'm crazy, not stupid.

4. Buy a <$20k sailboat, pick your flavor, and take it out on the weekends, day sailing and maybe a couple of overnighters on anchor. Once again, gives us more practical experience on the water.

Now we are reaching the territory of Lala land in my grand scheme. But let me know on a scale of possible to nuck'n futs you think this is. A lot of pieces would have to fall into place, tons of logistical issues and what not. I get all that, but follow along on this crazy dream. Though it goes without saying, but this is with the understanding that somewhere along the way, either of us doesn't decide that this is crazy and neither of us like it.

5. While gaining experience and living on the cheap, save buckets of money. Buckets of money needed to build our own boat from scratch. The more I research, the more I like the idea of a steel hull boat. Just doing some napkin math and the current cost of 1/4" steel plate, I calculated that it would take somewhere around 55 plates of 4x12 to build the hull of a 60 foot boat. Why 60? Why not. This is Lala land. So, I think that's around $85,000 in steel. I heard somewhere that the hull is 1/3 the cost of a boat. So, budget somewhere around $300,000 to $400,000 should be enough. Whatcha think?

I know quite a few people who have this on similar size vessels. Some have done it in about five years. I know three who have been at it for twenty years. Where do you fall in that spectrum. How much time do you have to waste ?

[Nailhead432]

Time? It's waisting away anyway. Might as well do something productive with it. Besides, with enough time, the problem with the 3 small dogs will go away. And, will likely be done playing hockey. If I can find the right employer that is willing to work with me and be flexible on a schedule, then I can find more time to dedicate to building a boat in the future. I would imagine that in 6 months to a year I could have a floating vessel. Maybe another year or 2 to complete the interior. But, what do I know about it?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Nailhead432

Time? It's waisting away anyway. Might as well do something productive with it. Besides, with enough time, the problem with the 3 small dogs will go away. And, will likely be done playing hockey. If I can find the right employer that is willing to work with me and be flexible on a schedule, then I can find more time to dedicate to building a boat in the future. I would imagine that in 6 months to a year I could have a floating vessel. Maybe another year or 2 to complete the interior. But, what do I know about it?

One man, a truckload of steel and one year.
Simply not realistic but what the heck go for it.

[Nailhead432]

If I can find a company to water jet all the ribs and stringers (based upon a naval architects design) then that part should take about 4 days. Based on previous experience with large projects, pizza and beer go along way to finding people who are willing to help with the heavy lifting. Forming 1/4" plate would be the toughest part. But I have an idea that might just be crazy enough to work using the hydraulics that I already own and welding tabs to the inside of the plates in key points, and pull both sides in at the same time, slowing welding up the plate as it forms into shape. That's one of the wonderful things about steel. I can cut it and weld it back up as many times as I want. Honestly, the most time consuming part with any large project I've done in the past is the wiring. I'm very OCD when it comes to layout and numbering, and thus, it takes forever to build a harness. Plus laying out multiple voltages on different runs, isolating the hull from electronics and using weather pack connectors at bulkheads just takes a long time to do it right. Like 5 times longer than would be expected. And I have learned that if you can move any single wire freely more than an inch on any given run, that circuit will be prone to failure years into the future. Nothing tougher than finding an open circuit from a wire that has broken inside its insulation. Needless to say, I have never built a boat before, but I do have lots of experience on large projects.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Nailhead432

Thanks for all the wonderful advice. I have been mulling it over some time now with the wife and this is the plan thus far.



1. Get ASA 101 - 104 for both of us. This will give us some experience and time on the water.



2. Move to Pensacola. Why Pensacola you may ask? Not fond of big, crowded cities. Also, we both play ice hockey...so, there needs to be a rink within the vicinity. Mucho closer to the water than I currently am. There are some cheap housing options available which will allow us to downsize our lives and live on a much tighter budget.



3. Having been a diesel mechanic for 25+ years, maybe I can find work at a boat yard and get some hands on experience with other people's boats before I get a chance to screw mine up. Obviously, I'd secure a job before moving my family to another state. I'm crazy, not stupid.



4. Buy a &lt;$20k sailboat, pick your flavor, and take it out on the weekends, day sailing and maybe a couple of overnighters on anchor. Once again, gives us more practical experience on the water.



Now we are reaching the territory of Lala land in my grand scheme. But let me know on a scale of possible to nuck'n futs you think this is. A lot of pieces would have to fall into place, tons of logistical issues and what not. I get all that, but follow along on this crazy dream. Though it goes without saying, but this is with the understanding that somewhere along the way, either of us doesn't decide that this is crazy and neither of us like it.



5. While gaining experience and living on the cheap, save buckets of money. Buckets of money needed to build our own boat from scratch. The more I research, the more I like the idea of a steel hull boat. Just doing some napkin math and the current cost of 1/4" steel plate, I calculated that it would take somewhere around 55 plates of 4x12 to build the hull of a 60 foot boat. Why 60? Why not. This is Lala land. So, I think that's around $85,000 in steel. I heard somewhere that the hull is 1/3 the cost of a boat. So, budget somewhere around $300,000 to $400,000 should be enough. Whatcha think?

Take the $300 K and buy yourself a nice second hand plastic boat all ready to go

Then go sailing.

[TrentePieds]

Nail:

For a moment I thot you'd come to your senses, but — alas!

Why on earth would you rather be blowing you money up the flue on having a design done by a very expensive professional, then blowing some more money up the flue by having a bunch on steel chopped up on a CNC machine, then blowing yet more money up the flue for some sophisticated welding, they yet more money for galvanizing 'er, then yet more money on doing joiner work in a medium you probably have no experience with or feeling for, then blowin... Oh forget it. The list becomes endless!

Do your ASA courses. Go for a new-to-you "frozen snot" 30- or 32- footer. 26 is too small. You wife would HATE it even if you don't. The pooper in a 26-footer is so small that you don't have room to "do the paperwork". You have to stand up and step out into the passage twixt the cabins to do that. A quick shower, if you have one fitted because some prior owner had megalomania, will cost you an hour of crawling around on hands and knees to clean up after yourself, and getting all 'orrid and sweaty again so you'll need another shower!

But 30 or 32 feet will make things tolerable, so get a boat than size for say 15 grand, Then sail the bejabers out of 'er, for a coupla years just to prove that we are right when we say you prolly won't like cruising. it's dead boring! And you wife will likely HATE it. In most women, though not all, a mere 10º heel will trigger some seriously atavistic behaviour!

Come off the 50-foot kick! You might be able to find the bux to BUY such a vessel. There is no trick to that. The trick is to find the money to KEEP one. And still keep the wolf from the door. My budget for KEEPING a 30-footer is a thousand Canadian bux a month. The "cost to keep" increases EXPONENTIALLY with the increase in length, because the displacement does. A 50-footer with the sort of accommodation you seem to want might well have a displacement of 80K lbs. My displacement is 11,000 lbs. So count on $8K/month just to keep her in good condition while also feeding a "sinking fund" (Yep, that's the accountants' name for it!) to replace serious stuff such as sails when they wear our - as they will. And don't forget to account for the opportunity cost, i.e. the income lost because you spent your money on a wasting asset such as a boat instead of on a revenue producing asset.

Do some more thinking and some hard-nosed, objective cost prognostication.

And again: All the best to you and you wife :-)!

TrentePieds

[MicHughV]

This is so funny....I must know at least a dozen people, that built their own boat, myself included.

One thing we all had in common, besides careful planning and estimation of project costs, was that the time we allowed to build it was about 1/3 of what it actually took and about 1/4 cost estimate of the actual money spent on the boat.

Keep posting and send pics....talk is cheap.....

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Nailhead432

I heard somewhere that the hull is 1/3 the cost of a boat. Whatcha think?

"Whatcha think"?
What you heard is far from the truth.
It's much more likely that a hull is perhaps 1/10th of the total cost.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

This is so funny....I must know at least a dozen people, that built their own boat, myself included.
One thing we all had in common, besides careful planning and estimation of project costs, was that the time we allowed to build it was about 1/3 of what it actually took and about 1/4 cost estimate of the actual money spent on the boat.
Keep posting and send pics....talk is cheap.....

You're right, I'll paraphrase my own quote to someone, "You go into it thinking it'll take your spare time and spare money, you soon realize that it will take ALL your money and ALL your time".

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Take the $300 K and buy yourself a nice second hand plastic boat all ready to go
Then go sailing.

To the OP, the above post by "goboatingnow" is sage advice.

[Don C L]

Once you do some sailing I think your plans will probably change a bit. These are nice dreams right now though. Seriously, it really is good to ponder what the perfect boat for you will be. Once you get to Florida, go visit a steel boat that is being built and ask the builder about it. If you want to be a boat builder, that is one thing, if you want to sail, that is another.